Would the references even get forwarded ?

[MathieuF]

Ok here's a very pretencious question...would the songs that Taxi uses as references in listings would get forwarded by screeners ?

I've had a load of returns with comments such as "too repetitive" or "needs a B section" or "avoid using a looped sample" when the references all have these issues, sometimes even more than the tracks I submitted.

Now I know all about having a developmental arc or edit points or all the Taxi stuff. But I think I still have one big issue of using the references a bit too much.

My process is usually to study the references and "copy" the structures ans dynamic changes, so I'm in the impression that my "arc" is gonna be right with what they want...or that I'm gonna have the right amount of themes and variations.

But it's never enough. So again...would the references get forwarded ?

Basicaly my question is : Should I not base my compositions on the references ?

[gitanosoy]

I agree with the "repetitiveness" of a reference track, many times I did the same thing as the ref.track and was told I needed a to go to a "B" section but clearly the ref.track stayed on the two chords with the same line repeating so I have learnt just to use it as what kind of a vibe and sounds they are looking for.

[cosmicdolphin]

References are for tone / vibe etc

Most of the time the references are not production music, they are hit songs etc. so they don't follow the same form / structure that would be needed by a Library for a cue.

The idea is to take the vibe / feel and put it into a cue format. Usually.

[MathieuF]

...

I think you are spot on that especially some trap listing references are so montonous and dull they would stand ZERO chance for a forward here at TAXI.

Tom

Yep my last batch of returns were for 2 traps listings...haha...1 forward out of 9 songs I submitted...(they were asking for at least 5 in one of the listings).

The thing is, yeah I understand that refs are for tone/vibe/sound but I usually feel like adding a B section breaks that vibe. And sometimes when I do add a B section, the screener would say that there's not enough of a distinction between my A and B section...but I try to keep the same vibe...

[MBantle]

References are for tone / vibe etc

Most of the time the references are not production music, they are hit songs etc. so they don't follow the same form / structure that would be needed by a Library for a cue.

The idea is to take the vibe / feel and put it into a cue format. Usually.

+1

[MBantle]

As mentioned in previous posts, an 'instrumental' in production music language is not supposed to be the instrumental version of an imaginary vocal song. For the tone&feel I would suggest to always check out the instrumental version of the reference(s). Youtube is a good source for that. Then check out Soundstripe etc. for instrumentals in the same genre and make a plan for an 'arc'. I agree it can be tough if the reference, once you remove the vocal, is pretty much just drum & bass (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKlWxGnw9qU) or even worse just bass and finger snaps (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lv30yFFwSo)
My five cents.
Cheers,
Matt

[AlanHall]

it can be tough if the reference, once you remove the vocal, is pretty much just drum & bass (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKlWxGnw9qU)

Matt, as a thought experiment, how would make this particular vocal-less track into a Taxi-ready instrumental?
As the recording stands I hear very sparse piano, synth, or guitar riffs (maybe some vocal effects) that fill the spaces between where the lyrical line would be. Would you add more (extend the usage) of the existing instruments to fill the space? Add a lead instrument different from what's there to replace the vocal? Or something else? Thanks for guiding us through this discussion.

[MBantle]

it can be tough if the reference, once you remove the vocal, is pretty much just drum & bass (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKlWxGnw9qU)

Matt, as a thought experiment, how would make this particular vocal-less track into a Taxi-ready instrumental?
As the recording stands I hear very sparse piano, synth, or guitar riffs (maybe some vocal effects) that fill the spaces between where the lyrical line would be. Would you add more (extend the usage) of the existing instruments to fill the space? Add a lead instrument different from what's there to replace the vocal? Or something else? Thanks for guiding us through this discussion.

Hi Alan,
I personally don't think the vocal-less track would work as a production music instrumental and you already gave the answer why: That 'instrumental' was created to support a vocal track and if used 'as is' or imitated in a similar way it could never stand on its own feet as it were. I use these 'Karaoke Versions' (for the lack of a better word) to get an idea what kick drum, synth, bass etc. is being used and I try to put similar sounds on my palette when making the plan for my own track. I agree it is very difficult to make a decision as to what could 'replace' the vocal track which sometimes carries the reference song so much that you think it would be impossible to ever come up with something that evokes the same feel as the reference (I think Billy Eilish is a good example for a tough reference). I don't think there is a recipe but what I believe is always a good starting point is starting small around a motive that uses a sound that could well be heard on a Billy Eilish record and take it from there. In other words, ask yourself what would evoke the same feeling when you remove Billy Eilish's vocals. It can be tricky and your creativity will be tested! I have to admit that I gave up sometimes when I felt that the reference was so much carried by the vocal that I would probably fail with everything I could cook up. And, yes, in an ideal world references for instrumental tracks would be instrumental tracks and not full vocal productions but I understand that is what Taxi typically receives from their clients. Another good source is the Taxi blog where you can check out what those guys who got forwarded came up with. Save those that are linked into a particular reference track, so the next time you might have a better starting point. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Matt

[AlanHall]

Cool, Matt. Thanks for your input