Writer Deal???

[timejunkie]

Hi, I just made my first submission (3 songs) to the listing below. My question is that this listing is looking for what appears to be "staff writers".If I were to sign a deal of this nature would I still be able to submit newly written material to other listings?I may be answering my own question here... but I assume it would depend on the nature of the writer contract with the lister. If it is an exclusive writer deal that would have to come with a price (salary) because I would be tying myself and my material up for the duration of the contract.I guess it could be non-exclusive and I could shop anyhthing I write while under the contract to whomever as long as I was not on salary.Has anyone signed a deal like this or have any experience they could share?Here is the listing:NEW LISTING - METAL WRITERS/PRODUCERS -- those who can produce ‘Slipknot’ Alt. Metal to ‘Poison’ Pop-Metal -- are wanted by a Music Library/Publisher with many high-level network contracts and placements. He wants to hear Death Metal, Glam Metal, Speed Metal, Screamcore -- everything under the Metal style umbrella. He’s looking to hire writers to produce new songs for his library -- he’s not looking to sign your current songs. For this listing, submit songs with vocals -- he’s not looking for just instrumentalists. Submitting a 5 minute montage of some of your best work is fine, but submitting individual songs is OK as well. Broadcast quality needed [great sounding home recordings are OK]. Please submit one to three songs per CD/online. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than July 17, 2006. TAXI # S060717MT BTW...the songs I submitted were Jaded, Heart Reaction and Hook. If you would like to check them out and let me know if you think they are suited to the listing that would be great!www.chipgallmusic.comThanks in advance.Cheers,Chip

[matto]

timejunkie,since this is a music library it almost certainly wouldn't be a "staff writer" type deal (where you'd get paid a yearly salary in exchange for writing exclusively for them).Instead it's most likely a scenario where they would hire somebody to write on a per project basis, meaning you'd write a certain number of songs in a specific style for them, and you could still write and submit anything you like to whomever you like. As long as you deliver the project they hired you for on time.I have not heard of any music library that hires writers under an exclusive contract.matto

[davewalton]

Quote:I just made my first submission (3 songs) to the listing below. There's something about actually making that first submission that's like the beginning of a new and exciting journey. "Regular" people wouldn't understand, but it's really very cool to submit to stuff like that, knowing that someone, somewhere is going to get that deal. Might as well be you. Good luck with that!Dave

[timejunkie]

The line that through me was... “He’s looking to hire writers to produce new songs for his library -- he’s not looking to sign your current songs.” This would indicate to me that this is a staff writer gig or some form of exclusive deal. I agree that would be a strange arrangement for a “Music Library” but I guess anything is possible…it is the music business after all. Yes...the first submission is exciting for us "newbies" even if I get trashed.

[davewalton]

Quote:Yes...the first submission is exciting for us "newbies" I'll have to admit, submitting is still pretty exciting for us "oldbies".

[matto]

Quote:The line that through me was... “He’s looking to hire writers to produce new songs for his library -- he’s not looking to sign your current songs.” This would indicate to me that this is a staff writer gig or some form of exclusive deal. That line just means exactly what it says. It doesn't in any way imply a staff writer position or exclusivity, except for the specific songs he hires you to write for him. THOSE SONGS will probably be a work for hire and he'll own the publishing to them exclusively. Composers and songwriters get hired every day by music libraries to write songs for their projects, even entire CD's worth of material. If you were to be offered such a gig I'd say you should consider yourself lucky .

[timejunkie]

I see what you are saying...thanks for your insight. Library deals are new to me, it's interesting to see the different configurations. My father worked for (PRO) Socan in Canada for many... many years and always taught me to retain as much publishing as possible. So I have always kept that in the back of my mind when negotiating publishing.Has anyone signed a "Work For Hire" deal and what was involved. My understanding is that this is a terrible deal for writers and we should avoid them...?????If I don't get forwarded I won't have to worry about it now will I. Thanks!Chip

[matto]

Quote:Has anyone signed a "Work For Hire" deal and what was involved. My understanding is that this is a terrible deal for writers and we should avoid them...?????A work for hire deal just means that the company who hires you and pays you to write the song will be the owner of that song and automatically get 100% of the publishing. You will retain 100% of the writers share.If you think that getting paid to write music and receiving 50 cents for every dollar of royalties that's generated by that music is a terrible deal that should be avoided...hmmm...well I guess then you should. I've signed many work for hire deals and I'm actually fortunate enough to make a living from largely music library work. I gladly give up the publisher's share to a company that's getting me great placements I couldn't get on my own, because 50% of royalties from songs that make a lot of money is a lot more than 100% of royalties from songs that aren't making any, or very little.Retaining part or all of your publishing is a good idea in theory but not if it keeps you from signing ANY deals (and thus getting your music in a position where it could make you money). You also have to keep in mind that the music business is a business and most companies won't pitch your music and help you make money with it out of the goodness of their hearts...there needs to be something in it for them. Particularly if they pay you to write the music in the first place.matto

[timejunkie]

All very good points...I just hope you don't write a "Happy Birthday To You" under a "work for hire" contract. I was going to ask you about the writers share... again my undertanding is that once you are paid a "flat fee" to write the song... a "work for hire" deal is like you never exsisted? Is this correct... or is each deal different as far as writer credit and writer's share of the income? I'm sure the programmers that wrote Windows are not earning royalties on each unit sold...I would never ask you to disclose the details of your WFH deals, however this is a hotly contested issue at the moment (particularily in the US) and I think people (including me) need to be edjucated as to the nature of such arrangments.I read the Taxi article on the subject but it provided little detail of how these agreements actually work.Any further insight you can provide is very much appreciated. Cheers,Chip

[matto]

Quote:All very good points...I just hope you don't write a "Happy Birthday To You" under a "work for hire" contract. Why not? I would earn 50% of millions and millions of dollars. Personally I would be extremely happy with that. You wouldn't? Quote:I was going to ask you about the writers share... again my undertanding is that once you are paid a "flat fee" to write the song... a "work for hire" deal is like you never exsisted? Is this correct... or is each deal different as far as writer credit and writer's share of the income? I'm sure the programmers that wrote Windows are not earning royalties on each unit sold...Your understanding is incorrect. You are still listed as the writer of the song and retain your writer's royalties. A work for hire contract is not the same as a buyout. This is something lots of people seem to be confused about. And this is true for every work for hire contract I've ever seen.I can not speak for how intellectual property rights are handled in industries outside the music business.Quote:I would never ask you to disclose the details of your WFH deals, however this is a hotly contested issue at the moment (particularily in the US) and I think people (including me) need to be edjucated as to the nature of such arrangments.What's hotly contested at the moment is record labels wanting to sign artists to work for hire contracts. This would be a new practice and affect an artist's master recordings mostly, which would no longer revert to the artist after a specified period of time as they traditionally do, resulting in a loss of income to the artists. Keep in mind the artists would not be stripped of their writer's royalties under this new agreement. And please also understand that every major scoring gig for film or tv is a work for hire agreement. Even if you're John Williams. He gets a huge composer's fee and retains his writer's royalties. The studio owns the music copyright and gets the publisher's share.Anyway this is how things are under US Copyright Law, I guess there's a possibility that "work for hire" would be defined differently under Canadian Law, but I would be rather surprised if that were the case.