You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by funsongs » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:06 am

Congrats, Ron - and that's a good word for ANY field of endeavor.
Thanks for the posting & reminder of it.
Cheers!
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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by MBantle » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:43 am

That is so great Ron! And, thanks for keeping those of us motivated who - same like you - have a demanding day job. All the best!
Cheers,
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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by lesmac » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:43 pm

Hey Ron, thanks for sharing your process.
Lyrics take a lot of time and energy. I'm okay, but not great. If I do it on my own, I lack perspective and getting perspective takes more time and energy.
For me the lyrics often pour out quickly. I once thought I'd write down concepts and ideas related to a title and when I'd finished I virtually had the song with a few tweaks and minor changes! [It wasn't a GREAT song or you would have heard about it. :lol: ]
Writing melodies is pretty quick for me. Tracking vocals is usually quick, but I blocking out the time to do it when my voice will be warmed up, and the rest of the house isn't sleeping or making noise can take some coordinating,

Producing vocals - processing and especially tuning - can take a lot of time. And if there's a rewrite to a lyric, I'm back to square one.
That's hard carving out the time, your voice sounds pretty smooth so you're probably on the money a lot quicker than I.
I can be REALLY pitchy and I have to work to really nail down the melody as I go. I use Waves Tune Real Time and am coveting Antares Autotune in some form at the moment. I have to work through the song phrase by phrase and word by word after an initial full run through. Not only concentrating on tuning but on delivery style. I quite often feel like I'm painting a picture blindfolded! Listening the next day quite often the impression is "OMG that's crap" but I still take heart in the fact that progress is being made and the whole process is me improving my singing while eventually getting a few songs out. I like to bounce between different songs so I don't get too disheartened along the way.

Thanks again for your response and happy singing!

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by RonKujawa » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:49 pm

lesmac wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:43 pm

That's hard carving out the time, your voice sounds pretty smooth so you're probably on the money a lot quicker than I.
I can be REALLY pitchy and I have to work to really nail down the melody as I go. I use Waves Tune Real Time and am coveting Antares Autotune in some form at the moment. I have to work through the song phrase by phrase and word by word after an initial full run through. Not only concentrating on tuning but on delivery style. I quite often feel like I'm painting a picture blindfolded! Listening the next day quite often the impression is "OMG that's crap" but I still take heart in the fact that progress is being made and the whole process is me improving my singing while eventually getting a few songs out. I like to bounce between different songs so I don't get too disheartened along the way.

Thanks again for your response and happy singing!
Yeah, I totally get that day after thing. Thanks for your kind words, but I definitely have my pitchy moments.

When I track vocals, I typically go verse 1 and do the whole thing 3-4 times. Then I go to the Chorus and do 4-5 takes. Then I do all the other choruses in the same way. If all is feeling well, I move onto verse 2 with another few takes. Same with the bridge. Then if I'm smart, I go back and do verse 1 again because my voice is warmed up and I understand the song better by now. Usually, the only time I go line by line is if something is really tricky. After all the tracking is done, I give it a break for hours or days if I can. Then I listen and if it's an "OMG that's crap" reaction, I start over. Or I may have rewritten a line or melody by this point.

Once I'm "done" tracking vocals, I'll comp verse 1 one line at a time, sometimes one phrase or word. I do the same with each section of the song trying to comp the best take. Often, something will stick out that needs to be re-tracked, so I'll do it on the spot.

After comping is done, I go back and tune everything in Melodyne. I've gotten pretty quick with it now, but it can be a very tedious process. I'll make sure every syllable is tuned, but not so much so that it sounds auto-tuned. Tuning vocals is its own art form.

Then I get to repeat that process with the backing vocal tracks.

On this 80s rock EP, I'm not doing as much tuning, since no one was tuning vocals back then. I've been doing the lead vocal line, but if I'm layering 12 tracks of BGV, most of those won't get tuned. I like the way they blend better that way.

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by lesmac » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:41 pm

Once I'm "done" tracking vocals, I'll comp verse 1 one line at a time, sometimes one phrase or word. I do the same with each section of the song trying to comp the best take. Often, something will stick out that needs to be re-tracked, so I'll do it on the spot.

After comping is done, I go back and tune everything in Melodyne. I've gotten pretty quick with it now, but it can be a very tedious process. I'll make sure every syllable is tuned, but not so much so that it sounds auto-tuned. Tuning vocals is its own art form.
I do variations of what I said earlier and what you outlined here as well depending on whether the song is within my range and I am comfortable with it. I also pop it into Melodyne later and am getting my own chops up with that too.

Even though there are heaps of tutorials on recording and editing vocals its good to get first hand views and workflows.

At least we are "doing it" and that is the only way to get better.
Lyrics and vocals have taken the most time, and I'm not even aiming for super great lyrics, since it's supposed to sound like what would be written in the 80s by rock bands that were high on alcohol and cocaine. :D
Are you using the method acting approach here? I imagine the wife and kids would have to give you a huge block of time to allow that! :lol:

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by ksutton1207 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:17 am

Ron! So encouraged by your success, my dude. It's been an absolute pleasure collaborating with you and I hope we do a lot more of it.

Could you post a SoundCloud link to that blues rock song here? Would love to hear it. 100 placements... that's nuts!!

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by RonKujawa » Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:27 am

ksutton1207 wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:17 am
Ron! So encouraged by your success, my dude. It's been an absolute pleasure collaborating with you and I hope we do a lot more of it.

Could you post a SoundCloud link to that blues rock song here? Would love to hear it. 100 placements... that's nuts!!
Thanks, man!! It's been an absolute pleasure collaborating with you too. Beside being a great musician and writer, you are extremely professional about your approach to the business side.

This song got used so many times for sports related shows, we did a second lyric version. The original is I'm Not Working Today. The alternate is I'm Not Losing Today. So far, the instrumental keeps getting used. We just uploaded the alternate a month or so ago.

https://soundcloud.com/ronkujawa/im-not ... v-film-ads

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by ksutton1207 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:27 pm

RonKujawa wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:27 am
Thanks, man!! It's been an absolute pleasure collaborating with you too. Beside being a great musician and writer, you are extremely professional about your approach to the business side.

This song got used so many times for sports related shows, we did a second lyric version. The original is I'm Not Working Today. The alternate is I'm Not Losing Today. So far, the instrumental keeps getting used. We just uploaded the alternate a month or so ago.

https://soundcloud.com/ronkujawa/im-not ... v-film-ads
Thanks for saying so, man!!

And track is killer. Not surprised at all it’s getting so many placements! I hear a number of vocal parts - assume one of them is you? :)

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Re: You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit

Post by RonKujawa » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:24 am

[/quote]
And track is killer. Not surprised at all it’s getting so many placements! I hear a number of vocal parts - assume one of them is you? :)
[/quote]

Thanks again! Yep, I'm doing lead vocal on this, and some backing vocals. We also hired a female singer to do more backing vocals, and Marc Blackwell added some tracks too.


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