34 out of 34 returned so far !

[davewalton]

Aug 4, 2008, 6:35am, claire wrote:Dave Dave Dave - don't worry...I won't bother you again.(nice, really nice)ClaireClaire,Sorry if my post came off as rude. You've posted forwards for Country listings and the Country people here hold you in high regard, particularly with lyrics (in case you didn't know ). I wasn't being "not nice" or certainly didn't have that in mind. Just that I hate to see anyone that can and does make it past the screeners for high bar listings, become overly discouraged because of the returns. Regarding those returns, if you want to have a better understanding of your music as it relates to those listings, post a listing and the music you sent for that listing. The forum people who do Country (not me) will give you unbiased feedback. Outside of Taxi, regarding another "listings" site, I've had horrible "results"... three years and one "maybe" deal recently to write 1 little song for a film. Other than that, not even a nibble of interest after hundreds of submissions. But that listing site doesn't have anything to do with the results. My other successes (inside and outside of Taxi) aren't relevant either. Their listings (like the Taxi listings) are legitimate and so those opportunities exist for me as much as anyone. One thing maybe you can take away from the experience (with Taxi) is that since you can get forwards from screeners like John Brahany, Pat and Pete Luboff, etc, (people with decades of industry experience), your music is at the level where you can compete, inside and outside of Taxi. Maybe you already knew that but for me, having that kind of feedback was invaluable in having the confidence to accept the rejections on the outside. At least I knew it wasn't because of the music itself. Hope that helps and I do wish you well,Dave

[jchitty]

This is a very interesting thread that I missed....and it was fun to look at Dave in his Peter Frampton days. Claire, I've been where you have....frustrated by lack of fowards and the critiques. However, like me, you've gotten a high bar foward to two, so that's encouraging. TAXI is only a tool really, something to help you, but they can't work magic. That being said, I still think TAXI is a tool you should have....you need all the allies you can get. It's like having a tour guide to help you out in a European town...I wouldn't want to be without one. Being a country songwriter is the hardest thing on the planet. For one, some of our real world friends tell us how much they hate country music, and say things like "well, how hard is it to get a song placed in Nashville....all you have to do is write a song about drinking and cheating." We don't get many rewards for our labor, but then again, do a lot of musicians? It's so easy to get discouraged and give up when you're not getting any results. But if you're like me, you just gotta keep rolling those dice again and again.....it's what makes life fun you know. You have to be extremely patient if you're going to write country and I'm beginning to think that even a time line of five years isn't enough when it comes to country songwriting...I've read articles about successful country songwriters who took over ten years to get a cut.We unknowns waltz in thinking that TAXI is gonna foward all of our stuff....we'll get a deal in a year or so, and then we'll be accepting a CMA award for our killer hit. Well, I had that fantasy, don't know about you. It's a waiting game....and as they say, the waiting is the hardest part. You just have to keep writing, pitching, hoping, re-writing, repeat process, etc. Know your target inside and out and try to improve by the critiques. Most of the critiques will be thoughtful, teaching and mentoring, others not so much. Glean what you can....keep applying what you've learned. And after all that, you still may never go anywhere, but it's nice to dream anyway.Nashville is very insular, and if a newbie is gonna break into that scene, they have to write a super standout hit....all I can say is, just keep trying. Here's something I can say about TAXI's presence in Nashville though. When I attended the Nashville seminar in May, I ended up having drinks and snacks with Michael Laskow, some other TAXI members and Jimi the moderator of this board. And believe it or not, I sat with some people who are now co-writing songs for two famous country artists. I won't name their names 'coz I think those folks would want that kept private, but I realized TAXI really has a presence in Nashville. I was always a doubting Thomas too, but I was encouraged that night....how many unknown songwriters get to sit down with people who are co-writing songs for famous country artists? It was a night I won't forget anytime soon.

[rcase]

Re Claire's observation that there doesn't seem to be much mention of country forwards/placements even in TV/Film..I've wondered about this as well. My perception (and I admit I don't watch a whole bunch of TV, so it may be inaccurate) is that there isn't as much demand in the film/TV world for music in this genre. Why is that? Maybe simply because the majority of people creating the content aren't as likely to listen to Country as they are other styles? Pure conjecture there, but I've felt that in the past. In other words, if I write techno/ambient/urban/whatever, I much more likely to see TV/Film listing possibilities than I am if I write stuff George Strait might record. Any of you with more experience in the trenches (which might be pretty much all of you )- please do chime in with your thoughts on this. As always guys and gals, thanks for the thought-provoking discourse!Rob

[jchitty]

Aug 5, 2008, 8:13am, rcase wrote:Re Claire's observation that there doesn't seem to be much mention of country forwards/placements even in TV/Film..I've wondered about this as well. My perception (and I admit I don't watch a whole bunch of TV, so it may be inaccurate) is that there isn't as much demand in the film/TV world for music in this genre. Why is that? Maybe simply because the majority of people creating the content aren't as likely to listen to Country as they are other styles? Pure conjecture there, but I've felt that in the past. In other words, if I write techno/ambient/urban/whatever, I much more likely to see TV/Film listing possibilities than I am if I write stuff George Strait might record. Any of you with more experience in the trenches (which might be pretty much all of you )- please do chime in with your thoughts on this. As always guys and gals, thanks for the thought-provoking discourse!RobI do notice an absence of listings in film and tv requesting country type songs, although I've seen a few listings from time to time. Country music is a very specialized genre of course and as you pointed out, some people don't listen to it. So unless you have a movie with a Southern theme (say like the Toby Keith movie that was recently aired on CMT), I don't guess there are too many opportunities to pitch country music. I know of few tv shows now with a Southern theme as well. In the nineties, we had Jeff Foxworthy's show, Designing Women, etc....but it seems like that's died out. CMT might be a good fit for country film tv listings....they are running reality shows now with country themes of course. It seems like movies and tv on a national level will take jazz, alternative, rock, etc....but country is one of those specific genres that will stick out (to some people anyway) if you place that type of song in a movie or television series.Maybe we need to bring back more Smokey and the Bandit movies? One of my biggest problems with pitching to tv and film opps is that I usually have my country music demoes done in Nashville....I want them to have that infamous "Nashville Sound." Because most of the musicians working in Nashville belong to a union, the fees can be kind of steep to obtain master signoffs, although I'm not being critical of that. That's how they operate. So if I want to pitch to a film or tv opp, it can be pricey. Most of these film and tv libraries want those master signoffs. It's one reason why I stick to pitching mainly to country artist listings.

[davewalton]

Aug 5, 2008, 8:13am, rcase wrote:Re Claire's observation that there doesn't seem to be much mention of country forwards/placements even in TV/Film..I've wondered about this as well. My perception (and I admit I don't watch a whole bunch of TV, so it may be inaccurate) is that there isn't as much demand in the film/TV world for music in this genre. Of the current crop of Country listings... only two are for film/tv, the rest are for "major label Country artists". That's why someone submitting to the Country listings can't really compare their forward/return ratio to anyone else's. The bar is SO much higher there. Claire, getting a forward in the Country listings, that's SO much more significant and meaningful than me getting a forward to a music library. To make a living, I have to have lots of deals for the most part. One deal for Claire writing a hit Country song... that could set her up for life. So the disparity in the difficulty of "getting through" is equal to the reward. Lower reward... easier getting through. Highest reward possible... harder to get through than anything else, practically impossible. Outside of music, how many jobs are there that can pay millions your first year? Very few and wouldn't you think they're a little hard to come by? Music is no different and it's not a "Taxi thing". I fussed at Claire partly because she was saying that opportunities don't exist for Country people submitting to the Taxi listings. That's just nonsense unless you're looking to be exclusively doing Country only for film/tv. Since 99% of the Taxi Country listings are for major label artists, I'd say that each one is one hell of an opportunity... each one with a huge payoff for the "winner". Now, the chances of getting a cut through to the point where you ink a deal as the songwriter for Brooks and Dunn's latest hit... how many of those "deals" would one expect to see every three months? Anywhere for any period of time? The difficulty in getting through has a symbiotic relationship to the reward. Regarding music that's less than mainstream in film/tv, someone like Matto has done very well in film and television with little niches like Salsa music and I imagine that he'd make some good film/tv money with Country music too, if that's what he decided to do. It's more of a matter of attitude than anything else.

[Casey H]

Aug 5, 2008, 7:35am, jchitty wrote: Being a country songwriter is the hardest thing on the planet. Nah... Explaining to your wife why she has to take an antibiotic for YOUR urinary infection... Now THAT's the hardest thing on the planet!! **bad joke** Sorry, couldn't resist... Please don't shoot me... Casey

[jchitty]

Aug 5, 2008, 10:35am, hurowitz wrote:Aug 5, 2008, 7:35am, jchitty wrote: Being a country songwriter is the hardest thing on the planet. Nah... Explaining to your wife why she has to take an antibiotic for YOUR urinary infection... Now THAT's the hardest thing on the planet!! **bad joke** Sorry, couldn't resist... Please don't shoot me... CaseyEr, I don't know if I should go there.... BTW, I agree with Dave about the apples and oranges aspect of the foward ratio for country listings and film/tv listings, although I'm glad Dave said it first. I don't want to sound like I'm dismissing anyone who gets a film/tv (library, whatever) foward....you have to be an excellent musician and have a great piece of work to get those fowards too.But the Nashville country highbar is much harder to jump over because there are only so many country artists to pitch to, and most of them either write their stuff or have their own writers. So your stuff has to be a million cuts above to even be considered. I think there are high standards for film and tv as well, but you have many more opportunities and thus, I think the chances of getting a foward or a deal are better.One forum member always says that if you only get one or two fowards a year, then you should consider not using TAXI anymore. I think that's a one size fits all approach, and it might not apply to country songwriters in particular.If your songs are continually scoring good marks for the country listings and you get only one or two fowards a year, you still might have something to work with. (provided that country listings are all you pitch too) It does mean you have the chops to write something that passed the country high bar even if you only get a foward every now and then. And if you ever do get a Nashville cut, it's worth all those years that you suffered for your art, hehe.

[claire]

well at the risk of inflaming the inflamed again...all I said was that I looked at the deals for three months and didn't see any country deals. period. Occasionally I gripe about my own submissions getting returned but this time I was just stating a fact. for all I know there are hundreds of country forwards through Taxi every month but apparently none of them turn into deals. Hopefully Taxi is not still hauling out "Buy Me A Rose" and "I Loved Her First" as proof that great country cuts happen through their service. I'm sorry if that offends but again, I'm just stating facts.I started writing country music in 1995 so I've been doing it for 13 years. I moved from Miami to Nashville in 2001 so I've been writing here for 7 years. I know what I'm doing, I'm not someone who just wandered into Taxi and expected a major label cut in a year - if at all. I guess I did expect that occasionally one of my submissions would get forwarded but after 31 returns and 4 forwards (and two of those were contemporary Christian) I'm thinking it ain't gonna happen. With the economy tanking and demo costs going sky high, I just don't think I can afford to spend $400 a year with Taxi any more."Country" encompasses so much more than three chords and the truth nowadays. Country runs the gamut from singer-songwriter music that could easily be placed in tv and movies to traditional George Strait Alan Jackson type music - and even George is singing about "seeing God" lately. I don't know why there shouldn't be as many chances of getting forwarded to music libraries for country as there are for other genres of music. Country tracks would fit a multitude of tv shows, not just Dukes of Hazzard remakes.fwiw, most demo studios here use union musicians off scale. the union knows it's happening and the studios know it's happening and the musicians know it's happening and everyone looks the other way. I can't remember the last time I had a demo done union scale.I'm really not angry about this, just disappointed. And yes, I do understand how Taxi works - they forward and the folks who listed listen. Once the forward leaves Taxi, they're out of the loop. Again, although it may not sound that way, I am not blaming Taxi for their lack of success with the country genre - they list what they have. Nevertheless, if Keith Urban is looking for a monster high bar hit song, the first place he's going to go is himself and cowrite it with Jeffrey Steele or Rivers Rutherford or Craig Wiseman. The high bar artists don't need to look for material when it's already just down the street from their publishers. great input on the posts, by the way.Claire

[davewalton]

Aug 5, 2008, 1:12pm, claire wrote:well at the risk of inflaming the inflamed again...I'm more infirmed than inflamed... More extinguished than distinguished. Is there a potential song in there somewhere???

[claire]

LOL! If there is a song in there, make sure it's not a country song!And of course, wouldn't you know, I checked my submission history and just got a forward to Universal South...Claire