Asking for advice based on lazy return review

[ScottFree4All]

Len,

You see - you secretly love the Ohs don't you! Funny review and a bit more informative than the Taxi review - though your Lester Bangs-ian take did throw me at first .

You thought the hook was the phrase "Get Ridiculous" while I thought the hook was the Ohs with "Get Ridiculous" as more of a tag. Terminology seems to differ greatly among musicians and songwriters. (Is it a middle 8 or a bridge? Where does the verse end and the pre-chorus begin?) Sometimes in Pop music the words used can get misleading if both parties use different words. So you inadvertently stumbled upon my point. I guess I wanted more clarity - yet I wasn't so clear myself.

I did write to Taxi, as per Casey's suggestion, and I gave the link to this post. Maybe they can figure it out - LOL.

Cheers,
Scott

[Len911]

Len,

You see - you secretly love the Ohs don't you! Funny review and a bit more informative than the Taxi review - though your Lester Bangs-ian take did throw me at first .

You thought the hook was the phrase "Get Ridiculous" while I thought the hook was the Ohs with "Get Ridiculous" as more of a tag. Terminology seems to differ greatly among musicians and songwriters. (Is it a middle 8 or a bridge? Where does the verse end and the pre-chorus begin?) Sometimes in Pop music the words used can get misleading if both parties use different words. So you inadvertently stumbled upon my point. I guess I wanted more clarity - yet I wasn't so clear myself.

I did write to Taxi, as per Casey's suggestion, and I gave the link to this post. Maybe they can figure it out - LOL.

Cheers,
Scott

Hey Scott,
Lester Bangs is a new one, I'll have to google,lol! You used a tag as the title and not the hook? Another first, rofl! It's a good thing I didn't say in the first post, as I almost did, that I didn't think that "oh" was a hook. I did like the "ohs" in the intro I will admit!
I'm not convinced that there is that much variance in songwriting terminology myself, so if you can give me one source and one quote from that source that might suggest "oh" is a hook, and that a tag could make an excellent title, I will concede!
To be clear, my definition of a hook, is that it is most often the title, but whether it is or not, it is the central idea of the song. The hook is going to be what people remember about the song, which will also tend to center around the main idea or theme of the song whether it is the title or not. The title might be Joe's Bar, though people might remember it as the drinking song, maybe more of what goes on there than the name. I thought of another example where oh might be considered a hook; you said you was going to marry me but married another man, oh? you said you loved pickup trucks, but bought a four door sedan, oh? ...

Three times the screener mentioned hooks, 3,lol!
"...but could have a stronger infectiously catchy chorus..."
"...could be a solid song for this listing if the chorus had stronger hooks..."
"The main reason(s) you were or were not forwarded for this listing is:
"Could have stronger hooks"

Scott, your only disagreement is that you think your chorus and hook are strong. Is that correct? By what I'm reading, that's the only reason your song wasn't forwarded.
"Maybe they can figure it out". Scott you can't run away now, hee hee, you need to make a convincing case for why your chorus and hooks are strong!
Scott, I hope you don't think I'm beating you or your song up, I don't know you, and I think your song is excellent with a couple of possible exceptions, hook and chorus. I'm just pressing you for that kernel of info of why your chorus and hook are strong, that makes me reconsider my whole opinionated viewpoint. Or, however remote the possibility,lol, that yes, I can write a stronger chorus.

[2lane]

Hey Scott....cool tune!
May I offer a perspective from a less successful person, just because you've gotten plenty from successful people here?
I've come to realize that when the song hits the spot "so to speak" it'll go. There may be times when they'll overlook
little things that they think are outside the listing parameters, but it really has to hit them hard in the ears department.
Case in point...I remember an instrumental hard rock tune of mine that got thru the gate, and the screener said he was a
little worried about the thickness of the production of the song, but thought that the guitar work was so good, he had to
let it go thru. I never heard a thing from the forward, which, with the screeners worries is maybe why I didn't?, but I
still appreciated that the screener let it thru.
My advice is to glean what you can from the comments, submit the song to some more "like" listings, and go from there. Now,
if you get more feedback that seems to reflect the same comments......then start to change the song as suggested.
My point is.....you can really start to let this stuff get to you if you let it. Don't ever let "one" review change your
painting......several, maybe!
FWIW.....
Steve

[ScottFree4All]

Steve,

Hey Scott....cool tune!
May I offer a perspective from a less successful person...

Thanks - but you are wrong. We are all successful if we're doing what we love.

Cheers,
Scott

[ScottFree4All]

Len,

To be clear, my definition of a hook, is that it is most often the title, but whether it is or not, it is the central idea of the song. The hook is going to be what people remember about the song, which will also tend to center around the main idea or theme of the song whether it is the title or not.

Oops - you said it again. I thought the hook was the musical phrase of Ohs. You hated it - and that's cool. You pointed it out, even mocked it out good naturedly - but it stuck with you. Isn't that the point of Pop music? Isn't that what a hook is? So the question remains - is it a good hook or a bad hook?

In a world where Max Martin reigns supreme - I am trying to understand that gentle balance.

Cheers,
Scott

[2lane]

Steve,

Hey Scott....cool tune!
May I offer a perspective from a less successful person...

Thanks - but you are wrong. We are all successful if we're doing what we love.

Cheers,
Scott

Touche!
But, I still would've liked to have seen my name in the forwards section as much as some of the guys here
I mean.....do you want to sell shoes, or.......DO YOU WANT TO SELL SHOES
Best of luck on your ventures.

Steve

[sedge]

Your'e a chef, you cook a meal, you pay a company to be the judge.
They tell you it wasn't good. You go on to cookeryclassics.com telling the world that the judge is lazy.

ahh man, must admit it's funny. Just don't use Taxi anymore. Hardly sounds like you are having a good time.
Unless you're into that sort of thing.

I dunno, sometimes punters can be a better benchmark first before going to market. Get in on youtube, spend a month promoting it, THEN if promising, take it to market. you should know after a month if the song has the "hook" - so easy these days to promote, facebook adverts, google adwords.

MASTER - YOUTUBE/SOUNDCLOUD etc / PROMOTE - ( if promising - yknow , like getting shares, 1000 views or more ) - send to market.

One way of doing it, let your friends and outsider ( fringe anonymous friends of friends ) TELL YOU if it is worthy of selling.

EDIT : All we can do in the forum is wax lyrical from therory

[6bq9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_(music)

the foundation of commercial songwriting, particularly hit-single writing", which varies in length from the repetition of "one note or a series of notes...[to] a lyric phrase, full lines, or an entire verse. The hook is 'what you're selling'. Though a hook can be something as insubstantial as a 'sound' (such as da doo ron ron), "ideally should contain one or more of the following: (a) a driving, danceable rhythm; (b) a melody that stays in people's minds; (c) a lyric that furthers the dramatic action, or defines a person or place.

[ScottFree4All]

Sedge,

ahh man, must admit it's funny. Just don't use Taxi anymore. Hardly sounds like you are having a good time. Unless you're into that sort of thing...

I love Taxi so I'm not looking to quit. Taxi helps keep me focused. I am also not looking to promote an artist - I just want to be the songwriter. The fact that I am the songwriter, the musician, the engineer, the producer is quite enough - but also makes it easy to lose perspective.

They always say to use the forum - so this time I did.

Cheers,
Scott

[sedge]

I am also not looking to promote an artist

Sounded to me like the song was "finished" enough to put it out and see who likes it, is why I suggested it.
That way you don't build up a huge expectation, that may or may not be correct, before sending it in.

The other way is not to have the expectation before sending it in I guess, that works too, did for me, Taxi opps become a point of inspiration, like you say.