Baffled by this Return! - Any thoughts?

[fusilierb]

Hi Bryan, thanks for your thoughts on this matter! Yeah my Wife & Mom ( hah ha ), believe me to be the cat's meow as it pertains to composing! I am certainly grateful to them for their beliefs and confidence in my ability!

I truly do appreciate your comments! I always really pay attention to whatever is suggested as I post a thread on the forum, as it pertains to a piece I'm working on. I fully recognize my weaknesses with regards to the production aspect of composition ( modern definition of composition ), & I will continue to slug away at it. Yet, there is always so much talk about one's voice as a composer which to me seems to be lost in all of us, if we don't stick to what we feel and express that musically, the best way possible, without simplifying anything!
Nonetheless, these are my humble thoughts!

What I believe to be one of the best parts of my experience here with Taxi, is the wonderful support & assistance that one gets on the forum!

Absolutely exceptional!

Thanks again Bryan, I appreciate your time!

Cheers,
Vincent!

Yes sir, the forums are easily the best part of Taxi, just behind the deals of course. I totally agree with you on the simplifying aspect. My thoughts are that you should write stuff for you and you should write stuff for them. Writing is supposed to be about personal expression. Never them take that part away from you. But there is a mindset that you can adopt when targeting and writing new things. And that is trying to use music to serve other purposes beyond being stand alone pieces, ie. production music. It's also an interesting challenge that can be a fun way of expressing yourself. And in the cases where music is married to images, simpler really can be more effective. There are a million examples that prove that wrong, listen to any Kubrick score, so take it with the huge salt shaker it poured out of. But if you listen to music that is being used in TV and on most films, you'll find that creating the perfect "mood" sometimes means simple strokes that carry a strong emotion.

There is no real answer here. Just more thoughts.
B

[mazz]

I think that's awesome that your music was played live by an orchestra!! I'm sure it was well received, as was the other composers' music. But that's a different world than what we're talking about here, IMO, and comparing the two does each one a disservice. Concert music and music for media serve two distinctly different purposes, and yes, there is a crossover for some film and game music, but that music wasn't designed from the ground up to be pure listening music first, as is concert music, it just happened to become popular outside of it's original format, which doesn't happen all that often.

For me, the process of learning to simplify has been one of growth and creativity, and of having to dig deep to overcome the urge to love everything that I write as the natural expression of my being, even if it doesn't work (translation: even if it sucks). For me, I was keeping everything that came out and trying to make it work because I didn't want to limit my self expression, but my writing really didn't become better until I learned how to edit and simplify. It's like polishing and cutting a diamond. Diamonds are what they are as we finally see them in the store only because they've been "edited". My composition teacher used up a lot of erasers during my lessons, and watching him hack up my brilliant masterpieces and make them sound better and work better, and actually express my intentions better through editing was a revelation.

So I guess I'm a firm believer that there's a diamond in every request by a client, and it's up to us as jewel makers to find that beauty lurking behind that raw stone.

Some find great creativity in that process, others chafe at it. Neither is wrong.

Keep writing and consider what beauty you might find if you pull back the veils of complexity. It's not easy, but I guarantee you will grow by going through the process.

Mazz

[onelight24]

Hey Vincent,
I listened to all your music that was returned. It's a damn shame. You clearly have outstanding compositional
chops and you achieve a very good orchestral sound. Finding the right balances is any mix is an art in itself and
it can be very frustrating.
I think that certain screeners at taxi are not keen on forwarding orchestral stuff. You have many things going
on in your tracks but your orchestral writing clearly is on top and that may put some screeners off. I think that either
they don't like that kind of writing or they expect way too much in terms of creating a 'mock up'. None of us TAXI composers
have the resources that Hollywood composers have (multi-computer setups, staff programmers-engineers or even access
to real orchestras) so it's unrealistic of the screeners to expect us to get THAT kind of sound.
Keep pushing and never give up. The music you hear in your head gives you your style and your style ultimately makes you unique.
Be it orchestral, hybrid orchestral or whatever. I heard a forwarded piece for the same listing (by a TAXI member) and it sounded
so much like the 4 note Batman motif (by Danny Elfman), that I just laughed! That music was not unique at all. Well produced, but hardly
unique...
You sound unique to me. Keep it up!
Adonis

Hi Adonis, thanks for the listen as well as your kind thoughts! I apologize that I did not respond to this earlier, I did not see it! It certainly is confusing to figure what is acceptable and what is not by the Taxi screeners, yet I will certainly keep plugging away! I taught band for many years, & I would always tell my students to strive for the best "they" can be! I would suggest to them that if anyone thought they were weird or different in their expression; that they should reply to their judgers with a heartfelt 'thank you', because that's what the intent was!

Anyway, thanks for your input Adonis, it is truly appreciated!


Bryan, thanks for giving me another perspective!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[onelight24]

Hi Mazz, thanks for your input once again! I get what your suggesting, it will take a while, yet I believe I will get there! Onward we go!

Always in appreciation of your thoughts!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[ebjazz]

Here's a thought on these types of listings:
The screener may be listening from a 'negative point of view", meaning that if he hears anything that he can identify as a synth then the track is not "broadcast quality". All the positive stuff about the track then becomes irrelevant.
Even though the listing states that they are not looking for tracks, if he hears a synth you're hosed.
Myself, I hear synths every night on TV and movies and so what?
I got returned on this one too. You're tracks do sound good, so persevere.
You know, they should let us hear the tracks that did get accepted so we could get a better idea as to what's acceptable.
Another thing that might be cool is they could tell us what screener is doing a listing. I know- they may not know until the end, but it's an idea. That way if you know #53 doesn't like you or a particular track you can save the $5 and he won't waste the 3 seconds that he listens to it.

Eb

[crs7string]

Eric,

The track I had forwarded (one of three) was far more synth than orchestral samples.

Broadcast quality is not always about having the best sample library. I recently worked thru mix and level issues with the owner of a library on a tango track. He liked the composition and hung in there with me until we tweaked everything. (this is out of the ordinary)

TAXI's model does not allow us this luxury, it has to be right out of the gate. On the example above, my level issue alone would have killed the deal. (the "not broadcast quality" box would have been checked)

This level issue has come about by upgrading my audio interface with a higher output and I've compensated by doing "softer" mixes, duh!

Also, many people have posted the tracks that were forwarded.


Chuck

[onelight24]

Hi Eric, thanks for the listen as well as your thoughts! Well, this is now my fourth return by this particular screener, so perhaps there maybe some truth to what you are suggesting. I would like to think that the level of professionalism by the individual screeners, would circumvent any sort of bias, yet one never knows!
I will certainly persevere, thanks for the sentiment! Good luck to you with your future submissions!

Chuck, once again, thanks for your input!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[ibanez468guit]

Yet here is the potential dilemma as it pertains to what you are suggesting... I certainly cannot begin a potential relationship with a library, unless the door is opened for said relationship. I would absolutely love to be working for a library, yet that has not materialized as of yet. Therefore what I am left with is knowing on some level that I will always work towards bettering my skills, no matter what; & that these pieces were good enough ( in my opinion ) to get me to the next step ( potential relationship with a library ). My immunity to a return would be greatly assisted if I were in such a relationship with a library. Yet again, not there yet! Therefore, I am left with great frustration!

Hey Vincent!

Just thought I'd chime in to let you know: You are not alone! I find myself to be in the EXACT same boat as you! I understand totally what Chuck is saying, and I understand just as much, what you're saying above. I've felt exactly the same way. I haven't gotten to the "immune" stage yet, because I haven't had an opportunity to develop a relationship with a library either, so my frustrations loom large as well. How are we to graduate to the "immune" stage, if we've never completely gotten our foot in the door in the first place? Truly frustrating! I feel your pain all the way over here in America! But I do get Chuck's point. These very same types of things happen in a lot of other situations as well, and of course, are not necessarily related to music. But for some strange reason, I generally handle those situations a little better than this music thing.

I will say that I've taken the advice of maestro Mazz here, and have worked diligently on developing the habit of scaling back on my most recent compositions, and creating more simplified versions, by eliminating too much clutter in my mixes or trying to make them too overly complex, and have begun to hear the differences in my newer creations vs. my earlier stuff, and I know for certain that I'm getting better mixes/productions than I was in the beginning of this complex journey (believe it or not, I have been working my a$$ off to get better sounding results, so right about now, too many consecutive returns never sit well with me). But that would definitely be something you might want to take into consideration.

And I also feel that if I continue working at it, eventually something's gonna' give, be it through submissions to TAXI, or through my own efforts, which I am now slowly beginning to investigate & exercise. Something that I hadn't been doing all of this time. I listened to all 3 of your pieces, and I found them to be quite excellent, IMHO. You're probably still going to come back at some point, possibly, and tweak those suckers again, based on some new found knowledge or information that pushes your stuff, to yet another level that you may have unconsciously managed to get to.

I spent today listening to my earlier stuff when I first started, and compared it to my most recent stuff, and I must say I cringed a few times listening to some of that earlier stuff. So I definitely feel I've made some major improvements since I first began. No question TAXI preps you for the journey, kinda' like the military, where they tear you down, get you ta' break some worldly habits, and then build you back up into the soldier they need you to be for the situations that you'll likely encounter. That, to me, is what this journey has been likened to, but just in a musical kind of way, if that makes any sense.

Hang in there pal, (I know, easier said than done, but I'll be right there hangin' with ya'!) your stuff is REALLY GOOD! I can almost tell...it's only just a matter of time now.

[onelight24]

Hi 'Ibanez468guit', thanks for the listen as well as your kind & humble thoughts! I appreciate you sharing your story with me. I suppose there is solice in the fact that others feel as I do. Interesting what you suggest:

These very same types of things happen in a lot of other situations as well, and of course, are not necessarily related to music. But for some strange reason, I generally handle those situations a little better than this music thing.

I find that I also have the skills to manage those sort of experiences outside of the expression of music. I suppose immunity comes with confidence in one's ability, and really this is what I am learning. I've been composing along time; I've been a gigging musician along time; I've been a teacher of music a long time; & for these aspects of my gift of music I have great confidence!

What I've not been along time, is one who composes for media, having to have great ability as an engineer & producer, as well as, a composer of music! I realize this will have its process, & that it will take time within this process to achieve what I've decided to do; which is compose for media!

Thanks once again, for sharing your thoughts & frustrations, & always, I wish you great success in your endeavors!

Onward WE go!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[fusilierb]

Yet, there is always so much talk about one's voice as a composer which to me seems to be lost in all of us, if we don't stick to what we feel and express that musically, the best way possible, without simplifying anything!
Nonetheless, these are my humble thoughts!

Yes my friend! Don't let 'em take that away from you. Write for them and write for you. But mostly write for you!
B