Baffled by this Return! - Any thoughts?

[onelight24]

Alright, another extremely frustrating & confusing return! ( I am rather annoyed by this one! )


DRAMATIC/ACTION type INSTRUMENTAL COMPOSERS needed by a Leading International Music Production Company representing composers of Film, Television, Commercials, and Video Games. They are not looking to license tracks for this particular request, but hoping to find talented composers to sign and represent...........


( Screener #53, would you please qualify why my pieces were not up to the recording quality you were looking for! It would certainly help me in getting out of this daze you've put me in!)

Not Master/Broadcast quality, marked off for all three tunes, which were professionally mastered (not by me of course).

Ridiculous, is what I would say!

Nonetheless, I've wanted to remain positive about my Taxi experience to date, & have been working quite diligently at this, yet I believe I maybe slipping! I am baffled by how in-consistent the subjectivity aspect of the screeners is, which clearly leaves me asking wether its actually worth renewing my membership ( my choice of course) . I've only received one forward in my entire time with Taxi, which was an extremely pleasant surprise, and I am grateful for this. It was surprising because it was the tune I least expected to be forwarded.... go figure!

The three tunes I submitted for this listing were placed on the peer to peer forum, as I asked for council regarding mix & production aspects of the tunes. All the information that was given to me on the forum for each piece, was fantastic and was used. So I feel in a way, wanting to share this confusion with you. I am grateful to all whom assisted me in this regard!

"Electro/Orchestral First"

"Monday 10:10"

"Organic Release"

http://www.taxi.com/vincentpace


Please, do have a listen, and help me understand how these tunes are Not Mastered/Broadcast Quality

Any & all thoughts are welcomed!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[k o star]

hi Vincent...

Ur compositions are fantastic I feel... really like the modes U used... Phrygian? I think...

I feel that it's not the mastering that's the issue but rather the mixing...
There are lots of interesting stuff going on & they may need more clarity/space of their own...
The various instruments used sounds a little bit mish-mashed in the mix-down...
Mixing aside, these are really Gr8 tracks...
& I'm really no expert abt mixing but just what I hear & MHO... HTH

Kel

[onelight24]

Hi Kel, thanks for the listen, as well as your thoughts! I appreciate your input. The mix is always a stumbling block for me, admittedly this is my weakness. Having said that, I really did believe that these tunes were in the pocket, and therefore ready to be sent off to the forward land.
Clearly, I was mistaken!
The thing is, I have a dear friend who is kind enough to listen to everything I do, including the mixes, without charge. He runs his own successful recording studio, and through his work on tv-commercials, film, and pop artists, has been nominated for 3 Junos ( Canadian equivalent of a Grammy). As I ran these mixes by him, he felt everything was properly represented, and all was well balanced within the mix. He then masters the tunes for me
( this I pay for ). So, I believe it boils down to what was hitting the screener at the time, obviously, not my tunes!

Thanks again!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[mazz]

Hey Vincent,


Taking a little break in the action here and I gave a listen.

I agree with Kel that the mixes are not serving your musical ideas as well as they could. You have a lot of ideas going on, which makes mixing more challenging. One idea is that you could simplify your orchestrations, make them less complex, which would leave room in the mix. If we could follow your musical thread more easily, I think the pieces would hang together better, and part of that is visualizing your mixes, and part of that is judicious editing of the orchestrations. I tend to want to put a lot in my music too, so I can relate. I'm consciously working every day to only put in what is necessary to realize the vision of the piece and what I want to evoke with it. It's an every day thing for me.

Another idea would be to pay your friend to mix one of these pieces and give you some mixing lessons as you go. I think if you were able to sit at his elbow and pick his brain as he worked, you would get a lot out of it, even for one piece. I think it would be an excellent investment in your recording education.

You're on the right track, and these pieces are forward-worthy, just not for every listing. But that's true with everyone. I get a lot of returns on pieces that have already been signed, it just depends on the listing. The key, for me anyway, is to be confident, but open to learning. I feel the sting on returns, particularly ones where I really wanted the forward, or where I thought that the piece was right for the listing, but after I sit back and reflect for a bit, I cool off and move on. After a while, it gets easier to slough it off and just keep moving.

I suggest you hang in there and keep working on your craft. These mixes sound much better than what I heard from you a few months ago, and in a year, if you keep at it, you'll listen back to these and be amazed at how far you've come.

The minute you think you're "all that", is the minute you stop growing. Keep growing.

Cheers!

Mazz

[onelight24]

Hi Mazz, thanks for the listen, as well as your thoughts! No, I certainly do not believe I am all that, just all frustrated ( ha ha )! I do appreciate the sentiment regarding growth, & clearly there is far more growth ahead of me, which is just fine with me! I love doing this, so it will always be a growth experience, because I'll never stop doing it!

Simplifying my compositions is something I will have to REALLY work at... or I'll just have to pay someone to mix my stuff, as your suggesting. Composition , as I understand it, is a reflection of how one thinks, feels, intuits, all at profound levels which cannot be explained through words, hence the musical expression. Unfortunately for me, this process is rarely a simple one, as I am sure others can relate! This implies, working towards a more simple expression, would be changing many things, on many levels, I am not sure I am ready to change. I reflect on my musical expression all the time, & at this point I have to follow through on how I express. Complex vs. simple does not enter into the equation, just relief after a piece is finished!

This is the beauty of Music!

I believe Mazz, one should never change their expression of music to suit others, yet I do understand that one must adapt to the consensus, in order to be working within the industry! I had the pleasure of having some of my music performed live in Kiev almost 10 years ago. The concerts were recorded on a dat tape I provided. My material, compared to the other modern day composers from Kiev who were on the same bill, was certainly not complex. These composers had a very accepting audience of their music, which at the time, I believed to be very avant guard & foreign to my ears. Point being, they composed what they felt, & this was seen as great! I digress!

So having said that, I will take the suggestions given, & contemplate further on how to better my approach for the perceived "success" of a Taxi forward!

I truly do appreciate, & thank you for your input!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[guitaroboe]

Hey Vincent,
I listened to all your music that was returned. It's a damn shame. You clearly have outstanding compositional
chops and you achieve a very good orchestral sound. Finding the right balances is any mix is an art in itself and
it can be very frustrating.
I think that certain screeners at taxi are not keen on forwarding orchestral stuff. You have many things going
on in your tracks but your orchestral writing clearly is on top and that may put some screeners off. I think that either
they don't like that kind of writing or they expect way too much in terms of creating a 'mock up'. None of us TAXI composers
have the resources that Hollywood composers have (multi-computer setups, staff programmers-engineers or even access
to real orchestras) so it's unrealistic of the screeners to expect us to get THAT kind of sound.
Keep pushing and never give up. The music you hear in your head gives you your style and your style ultimately makes you unique.
Be it orchestral, hybrid orchestral or whatever. I heard a forwarded piece for the same listing (by a TAXI member) and it sounded
so much like the 4 note Batman motif (by Danny Elfman), that I just laughed! That music was not unique at all. Well produced, but hardly
unique...
You sound unique to me. Keep it up!
Adonis

[crs7string]

Vincent,

If you are frustrated by not being forwarded, you're right on track!!

Everyone that's been around here a while had to go thru this process. After a while a return no longer matters. You develop what I refer to as "an immune system" to returns.

Part of this comes about when you have a return on a track that you submit that is already signed to a publisher. (Mazz mentioned this above) One of the three tracks I submitted to this same listing party's world listing was returned and it's signed to a library in LA, so I know it's a good track. (no emotion in the return)

The other part of this process of developing an immune system is having relationships with libraries. Many of the folks who have been doing this for a few years are now struggling to manage their time to write and submit to new listings. When you have established relationships you are now one of their composers and they send you emails telling you what they need. An interesting part of this from TAXI's perspective is that if TAXI is doing their job properly and we are developing good relationships, TAXI potentially becomes less relevant. Personally, I'll continue my membership, if only for the Rally, and I know there will be new opportunities for relationships.

A key part of this (IMO) is to take the perspective that a forward is a "favorable introduction" with the potential of a relationship. Chances are the listing party on this listing will be back if they like what they get from TAXI. This could present another opportunity for the favorable introduction. I am still submitting to listings from libraries I've been forwarded to multiple times because I've yet start a relationship with the library.

To me, this is all about relationship building, both here with fellow composers, and with libraries. You never know when you are auditioning for the gig.




Chuck

[onelight24]

Hi Chuck, thanks for your thoughts on this matter!

As I agree that it is totally about the relationships one cultivates in all aspects of one's life. Yet here is the potential dilemma as it pertains to what you are suggesting... I certainly cannot begin a potential relationship with a library, unless the door is opened for said relationship. In other words, much hinges on the fact of getting forwarded. I've taken that to be the name of this game! I would absolutely love to be working for a library, yet that has not materialized as of yet. Therefore what I am left with is knowing on some level that I will always work towards bettering my skills, no matter what; & that these pieces were good enough ( in my opinion ) to get me to the next step ( potential relationship with a library )
My immunity to a return would be greatly assisted if I were in such a relationship with a library. Yet again, not there yet!
Therefore, I am left with great frustration!

Once again, I truly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[fusilierb]

Hmmmm. I really don't hear a lot of mix problems here. I do hear what others are saying and they could use some work here and there, but I can certainly understand your frustration with these not being forwarded. They sound pretty damned good to me. This was apparently a HIGH bar listing and those can be much tougher. I guarantee you these pieces can and will be forwarded to similar listings in the future, so don't give up on them.

Composition wise, you right on. And it does suck having to be the writer AND the engineer/conductor. But that's the new game. Because its gotten so "easy" to mimic live sounds via samples, the expectation level is that you must be great at it. I'm still very much NOT, but the last year or so has been night/day difference.

I honestly think they were a bit too tough here. Unless for some other reason's the screener thought they were "off the mark", which I also don't, I don't hear enough problems with the mix to have returned them all. That being said, its gonna happen around here, and it will happen more often than not. That's my experience.

I've had the same pieces forwarded and returned to multiple listings and they are all signed in reputable libraries and some of those have been licensed and placed in small things. My mom thinks they are all brilliant. I know the returns are very disheartening, and I KNOW that the lame checkboxes are of no help at all to us when it comes to understanding what exactly was the real offending part of the pieces.

The only advice I can offer is to not give up. Use these boards to post your submissions before the deadline and let some of the great ears around here pre-screen them for you (hands down the best way to prep stuff for a listing!) and maybe even consider a custom critique. As far as the last part goes, there are still some listings that come with a critique, although I haven't had a critique listing in over a year here. In the past, I've submitted things that were not on target just to get the critique. It's actually cheaper that way and you never know what makes it through sometimes. But at least you'll get real feedback from the screener and can use that to fix and better target them in the future.

You are a great writer and I think you'll start to see some action sooner than later. As far as simplifying the writing itself, I've always had more success with my simpler pieces than the one's with a ton of stuff going on in them. I prefer the ones with a ton of stuff going on, but in the particular world, less really can be more effective.

HTH's
B

[onelight24]

Hi Bryan, thanks for your thoughts on this matter! Yeah my Wife & Mom ( hah ha ), believe me to be the cat's meow as it pertains to composing! I am certainly grateful to them for their beliefs and confidence in my ability!

I truly do appreciate your comments! I always really pay attention to whatever is suggested as I post a thread on the forum, as it pertains to a piece I'm working on. I fully recognize my weaknesses with regards to the production aspect of composition ( modern definition of composition ), & I will continue to slug away at it. Yet, there is always so much talk about one's voice as a composer which to me seems to be lost in all of us, if we don't stick to what we feel and express that musically, the best way possible, without simplifying anything!
Nonetheless, these are my humble thoughts!

What I believe to be one of the best parts of my experience here with Taxi, is the wonderful support & assistance that one gets on the forum!

Absolutely exceptional!

Thanks again Bryan, I appreciate your time!

Cheers,
Vincent!