DECIDED NOT TO...

[sedge]

Hi George, I had an awkward situation in Peer2Peer once in which a new forum member directly suggested some lyrics for a verse and further suggested we write the lyrics together.
As we know, if I went on to use those suggested words or take up the offer to publicly collaborate I would have been adding a co-writer to the song / of sorts

Fantastic to get feedback but we found/know, there is a way of giving lyric advise without putting the writer in an awkward situation to accept a co-writer / copyright probs (if you liked the lyric suggested)

Eg. with a lyric, say, - "I went to the shop for beer"

Good crit : You could use a better word for 'went', to upgrade it, give it some more meaning to the story

Bad crit : How about changing it to "I ran to the shop for beer"

Most writers on Taxi I see know this one very well!

That is the only problem I could see you would have posting here, it's really great to get an unbiased look at lyrics so you could always edit your post after it is "done" to remove the entry. Your lyrics, and all revisions of, are copyright you , whether you post em on the net or not.

Email them to yourself and a nearest is the quickest way to date works.

All good fun!

Sedge

[Kazak]

George:

Back to your original statement. A copyright is effected from the moment you write down the song. Taxi members and non members in the music industry know by now that if they were to consciously copy a song, they could get sued by the songwriter and/or various other entities, record labels, etc. That means their reputation could be damaged even if they are not found to be guilty of it. In other words, that's a pretty strong deterrent.

A few years ago I wrote a song (still unreleased) which had the identical title ONLY as a song released on another female Indie artist's album & although titles cannot be copyrighted I still changed my song title to avoid the duplication.

As the experts say, copyright infringement is rare. As a five year Taxi member I believe you really don't have anything to worry about on this Taxi forum

Alicia

[Len911]

Nothing personal, but I would imagine if your lyrics were that unique and unfamiliar, no one would like them anyway. On the other hand if they were familiar, you'd have to wonder who's ideas (influence) you stole them from,lol! I would imagine if Bob Dylan posted lyrics incognito for his upcoming cd release that he would get many suggestions for changes, and not be stolen from. If someone is going to steal ideas, there are millions of already popular songs to steal from, and they're probably not going to be scanning forums on the net looking for lyrics to steal, just my two cents.

Rob, I am sure I have been guilty of giving bad critiques by making suggestions, sometimes it's just easier to say something for me than write a half a page of hints,lol! I would think anyone who tried to sue for co-writer credits because of something mentioned on a songwriter forum would be laughed out of court, or should be,lol!

[sedge]

Rob, I am sure I have been guilty of giving bad critiques by making suggestions, sometimes it's just easier to say something for me than write a half a page of hints,lol! I would think anyone who tried to sue for co-writer credits because of something mentioned on a songwriter forum would be laughed out of court, or should be,lol!

ya, I take it all bit too seriously sometimes : S
.. as a possible problem George would have , that is all I could think of though : )

[GMDmusic]

Everyone,

Your comments are very helpful.

In a sense you are "publishing" your lyrics by posting them here. Is that right? Ya'll got me thinking...

[Ellwood]

Everyone,

Your comments are very helpful.

In a sense you are "publishing" your lyrics by posting them here. Is that right? Ya'll got me thinking...

Well (sort of) remember this is a private server holding this information, dates, lyrics, arrangements etc. Any server can be compromised at any time. Even the Governments servers can be compromised, but if you print out your copy written material directly after you register them with the U.S. Copy Write office at least you have a official remnant (date and time stamp from their server) of your work that will hold up very well in court.

[FMstereo]

Hi all

This is a really interesting discussion. I studied Intellectual Property when I did my law degree, and there’s quite a bit to it, and lots of misinformation about it as well. As I’m sure most people in the industry know, copyright “flows from the pen”, that is, as soon as you write or record a song, you own the copyright to that work. (Ideas cannot be protected by copyright, only the expression or form of those ideas.)

There have been lots comments on other parts of the Forum about registering songs with the US Copyright Office and whether using poor man’s copyright is a good idea. Here in New Zealand (and some other countries) there is no system for registering works for the purpose of copyright. (Although songs can be registered with APRA, our PRO, for the purpose of collecting royalties.)

On APRA’s website, they answer the FAQ about proving ownership as follows:

“It is rare that disputes arise about who owns the copyright in a work, but if this occurs, you need to be able to prove that you created the work. The best evidence of this would be early drafts or recordings of the work as well as diaries detailing its development.”

In my view, posting work up in a public forum such as TAXI, showing any changes that are made and then the final version, all helps prove that you created the work, and of course demonstrates the evolution of that work from early drafts to finished product.

I’ve found a UK website, http://www.songrite.com/index.html, Songrite Copyright Registration Office, that offers a service for registering and storing songs, music and lyrics, so that if there is ever a dispute, they are a “credible, independent witness” of the legal copyright owner from the date of registration. Whilst there is no such thing as “international copyright” most countries have signed international treaties, including the Berne Convention (that offers domestic protection to “foreign works”) and they say that they manage and register copyrights from all countries that are signatories to this convention.

I also found a similar website based in Canada, http://www.copyrightdeposit.com.

In these days of the internet and the “global village” that we live in, this seems like a good idea for non-USA writers/composers.

However, the cynic in me wonders if these are simply money making opportunities, as registration is not required to obtain copyright, and you’d only ever need this if there was a dispute about ownership. I’ve heard that many professionals in the music industry say that disputes over copyright in the industry are very rare.

I’ve just found a website for the Global Copyright Office, (connected with Songrite) http://www.globalcopyrightoffice.com/Pa ... ation.html. I thought that the following paragraph from their site is useful as many people may not have considered this aspect because of all the comments about the protection that registering offers:

“Registration, however, is no guarantee against infringement. The Copyright Office is not responsible for policing, or checking on registered works and their use, and will not guarantee that the legitimacy of ownership or originality in a work will never be questioned.”

Sorry if this has been a bit long winded, but I just find this so interesting.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer any more and none of this is intended as legal advice!

Cheers

[sedge]

fantastic info FM!

[ciskokidd]

Hi all



Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer any more and none of this is intended as legal advice!

Cheers

That sure sounds like lawyer speak to me. LOL

FM - Great post. I used to be precious about my lyrics when I first started, but now I don't have much issue with it. If you can make a line of my lyric inspire something for your own, go on and rock it.

I think what most people fear is out and out plagiarism. Where someone might steal entires sections of lyric and pass them off as their own. From my experience that is very rare. And if it happens, your posts here on TAXI can be solid ammunition in regards to creation. When I cowrite, I generally have an email trail 20 miles long and save them all for just that purpose.

Best,

Cisko

[FMstereo]

Hi Sedge

Thanks for the comment.

Cisko

I think I was probably a bit precious to start with as well. My worry was not so much that someone would steal my work, but that they would write a better song with the same idea!! And let's face it, we all get ideas from others: movies, books, articles in the paper, even things people say. I would suggest that many songs do not come from a totally unique, "I am the only person who ever thought about this idea" sort of place, but they're a bit of a mish mash of personal experiences, stories from friends and other ideas out in the world. What is unique is the way we put it all together and the words we use.

I agree with you that it's good to keep the email trail, and the posts on Taxi are also good evidence of what we wrote and when we did it.

Cheers