Digi 002 output distortion - please help!

[audiorayne]

Montster - thanks for your input … looks like the other avenues are mostly exhausted so it’s probably going to be Digi tech support for me!To those who have been graciously following this thread: After considerable hours troubleshooting yesterday, the problem remains… (Aaargh!)Here are the facts:1. Digi 002 distorted outputs. Sounds like main outs are overloaded or speakers are blown. Most noticeable with “full” mixes where bass is present. Problem is fuzz and distortion, not digital clicks and pops.2. Includes Digi 002 main monitor outputs, headphone outputs (using headphones), and the main analog outputs 1-2.3. Does not affect Digi 002 analog outs 3 through 8 - those are crisp and clear as normal. Tested all outputs with two brands of monitors, and headphones.4. Problem exists for all sessions5. Problem exists only when Pro Tools is running. When audio is played through iTunes, Digi 002 main & headphone outputs are fine6. Problem DOES NOT exist when running Pro Tools with Mbox Mini via USB (w/ 002 switched off). Problem initially observed with the following configuration:1. Macbook Pro 17”, 2 GB RAM 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM, 100GB 7200rpm HD2. Mac OS 10.4.83. Pro Tools LE 7.3.1cs54. External Glyph hard drive on firewire 8005. Mackie Onyx 800R interface used as clock master, connected via lightpipe to Digi002 ADAT input6. External display on DVI7. iLok on USB8. Logitech wireless mouse with USB transmitterSame problem observed even after the following troubleshooting steps were performed and/or under the following conditions:1. Delete Digidesign Databases folders at root of all drives2. Delete Digi User Prefs (DAE Prefs, DigiSetup.OSX, PT prefs, com.digidesign…. etc.) 3. Reinstall updated Mac OS (10.4.9) from combo update4. Install Pro Tools LE 7.45. Open new sessions in PT LE 7.4 at 48, 88.2, 96kHz, and import a WAV file from a commercial CD as a test 6. Record something through the 800R (master) to the 002 via lightpipe. Playback through 002 and then test w/ Mbox Mini – 002 distorted, Mbox not distorted.7. Run Macbook with only iLok and Digi 002 connected. Run 002 with internal clock (800R switched off and disconnected from 002)8. Uninstall iTunes9. Replace firewire cable10. Replace power cable11. Power 002 from different circuitThanks again to everyone who followed this. Hopefully now that I have this all laid out Digi tech support might be able to help more quickly. If you can think of any way that would make the description of the issue or the troubleshooting more clear, let me know.Have a great Thanksgiving everyone! (where applicable )-AR

[audiorayne]

Me again,Just want to make a slight modification to my description of the facts in the last post - I mentioned before that when I ran iTunes using the Digidesign CoreAudio Manager the 002 outputs were fine. Well, I just installed iTunes v7.5, and tested the 002 outputs using CoreAudio, and I'm hearing exactly the same distortion through the 002 outputs as in my Protools session. Again, the Mbox Mini (via MBox CoreAudio Manager) works fine. Perhaps that makes this more of a straightforward hardware issue. Hope so.-AR (AaRrrgh!)

[justinatrecording]

Hey AR-Just wanted to let you know that you're doing a fantastic job of troubleshooting and staying organized. Most people don't do so well.Any updates?There are a few things that are coming to mind:1. In all of your Pro Tools sessions, do you have a master fader created for out 1-2? Is that level okay and not clipping?2. Is there any way you can test the 002 on another computer (just to be sure it's not the computer)? I'm wondering if you're having some kind of a bizarre firewire bandwidth issue. Can you record a large number of tracks--say 18--okay? It could make sense that it's a firewire issue, since your USB interface is okay.3. Have you tried a different firewire port?4. Before you said iTunes was okay, it sounded like you were describing a bad capacitor in the analog output stage of the 002, especially because low frequencies aggravate it more. Maybe that's what's going on...5. Have you checked through Digi's compatibility documentation? to make super super sure that everything is compatible? Can you officially use firewire 800 drives with Pro Tools now? Because that's been a no-no for awhile (though I've done it sucessfully). 6. Have you experimented with different playback buffers and Levels? Just to see if that makes any difference...7. It should be a free telephone call to find out if your 002 needs one of the warranty replacements. There were two things: a bad ribbon cable and a bad power supply. Some units needed one or the other, while the rest needed both. Digi should answer this question for free, and send you the parts, even if you're out of manufacturer's warranty.8. Have you tested the 002 in standalone mode as a mixer? Does it do the same thing? That would answer the question about whether the issue was a hardware problem--like a bad cap.Hope this gives you something to chew on. Justin

[audiorayne]

Quote:Hey AR-Just wanted to let you know that you're doing a fantastic job of troubleshooting and staying organized. Most people don't do so well.Any updates?There are a few things that are coming to mind:1. In all of your Pro Tools sessions, do you have a master fader created for out 1-2? Is that level okay and not clipping?2. Is there any way you can test the 002 on another computer (just to be sure it's not the computer)? I'm wondering if you're having some kind of a bizarre firewire bandwidth issue. Can you record a large number of tracks--say 18--okay? It could make sense that it's a firewire issue, since your USB interface is okay.3. Have you tried a different firewire port?4. Before you said iTunes was okay, it sounded like you were describing a bad capacitor in the analog output stage of the 002, especially because low frequencies aggravate it more. Maybe that's what's going on...5. Have you checked through Digi's compatibility documentation? to make super super sure that everything is compatible? Can you officially use firewire 800 drives with Pro Tools now? Because that's been a no-no for awhile (though I've done it sucessfully). 6. Have you experimented with different playback buffers and Levels? Just to see if that makes any difference...7. It should be a free telephone call to find out if your 002 needs one of the warranty replacements. There were two things: a bad ribbon cable and a bad power supply. Some units needed one or the other, while the rest needed both. Digi should answer this question for free, and send you the parts, even if you're out of manufacturer's warranty.8. Have you tested the 002 in standalone mode as a mixer? Does it do the same thing? That would answer the question about whether the issue was a hardware problem--like a bad cap.Hope this gives you something to chew on. JustinHi Justin,Thanks so much for the reply. I contacted Digidesign and spoke with someone at their ProAxxess line and was told the only thing I could do was send it back to them for repair. Unfortunately since it’s just out of warranty that’s going to cost over $400! Apparently all repairs cost the same, even if it’s only a bad cap, like you suggested it might be.I heard about the Black Lion Audio mod, which looks cool, but they tell me the mod might not even fix the problem, in which case I’d be paying for the mod AND for them to send it to a repair facility. I’m currently looking into sending the unit myself to a Digi authorized repair center here in Texas. To answer your questions:1. I do have a master fader in most of my sessions. No problems there. If I turn all the tracks down so the master level doesn’t go anywhere near zero, the problem remains.2. Haven’t actually tried it on another computer. Good idea. I’ll try that today.3. Unfortunately I don’t have any more FW ports! (It’s a MBP 17)4. I installed the latest version of iTunes and now the problem exists there too (I have no idea why it didn’t exist before I re-installed iTunes). I’m thinking you’re right about the cap. The problem is definitely related to low frequencies.5. From what I’ve found, FW800 is compatible. Please see: http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?lan ... mid=231146. I must have gone through all the hardware buffer, etc. settings about 100 times – no help there either!7. Basically I was told there was no way this was one of the common issues they fix for free, but that they wouldn’t know exactly what was wrong until I send it in. Whatever the fix happens to be, it will cost me a flat $410. I didn’t feel like it was a very helpful $3/min conversation!8. Ditto for standalone mode. DiStoRtIOn! Aaaaah!I wonder, is this cap replacement something I could do myself? It would same me some very critical time and money.. I’m assuming from the size of the unit that the caps are probably not surface mount pieces. Know where I can get a real schematic or layout/wiring diagram for this thing?Cheers,-AR

[audiorayne]

Update (again):Well, the independent shop says it's going to cost either $360 or $402 depending on what the problem is. Not much cheaper than Digi's replacement! *bang head* If anyone has any idea where I can find schematics and spare parts for these units, please let me know! I got my popsicle sticks, pipe cleaners, and elbow macaroni (and Farmer's white glue of course) ready to go! -ARP.S. Tried it with another computer yesterday as suggested by Justin in this thread ... same deal. *bangity bangity bang*

[sgs4u]

this might be worth a look...http://www.blacklionaudio.com/digi002_mod.html

[audiorayne]

Quote:this might be worth a look...http://www.blacklionaudio.com/digi002_mod.htmlThanks Steve,This mod looks pretty cool.. I got in touch with the guys there and they told me that the mod may or may not fix the issue that I'm having. If not I'd still have to send the 002 away to get repaired. Total amount could be either $500 (mod) or $900 (mod AND repair). Neither of those amounts look terribly appealing right now! I wonder if my wife would accept that as her Christmas present?

[justinatrecording]

AR-To clarify, if you call Digi and tell them you may be having a warranty power supply and/or ribbon cable issue, they will look up your serial number and determine whether your unit needs either. They'll ship the appropriate parts out to you at no cost, and you can install yourself. It's not hard at all. Anyway, I'd highly recommend doing this before sending the unit in for repair. Cheers,Justin

[audiorayne]

Quote:AR-To clarify, if you call Digi and tell them you may be having a warranty power supply and/or ribbon cable issue, they will look up your serial number and determine whether your unit needs either. They'll ship the appropriate parts out to you at no cost, and you can install yourself. It's not hard at all. Anyway, I'd highly recommend doing this before sending the unit in for repair. Cheers,JustinProbably should have mentioned but forgot about it actually - when I talked to the Pro Axxess line I gave my serial number and was told that my unit is not one of the ones that need either of those. Dead ends everywhere.If I can get the schematics for this thing I'll be able to see pretty quickly if its something I could do myself, but I haven't been able to find them. I'm trying to avoid tearing it apart and diving right in there until I get something like that - if you have any idea let me know. I'm going to dig for a couple more days and then I might have to bite the bullet and send it in. Cheers-AR

[justinatrecording]

Unfortunately I can't help with schematics... Did you ask around at the DUC? Another option: You could always consider just not using analog outputs 1-2! With my Digi 002, I use a separate monitor controller with a digital input. You could use the S/PDIF out to a monitor controller and be all set. You could buy something like the Presonus Central Station for what your repair bill would cost, and end up with a LOT more monitoring features, speaker switching, etc. In fact, as I think about it, that's exactly what I would do. You'll spend the same money, but end up with more gear and a more flexible studio!Cheers,Justin