DIsappointing returns (s).....

A cozy place to hang out and discuss all things music.

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

CHuckmott
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by CHuckmott » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:16 am

I debated whether or not to post this here, but since this is probably not an idea unique to me, thought it would benefit some member discussion for those who are contemplating whether or not to re-up their memberships. I guess one of the wrinkles in this post that I haven't seen addressed otherwise is I am one of those guys who submit to libraries other then relying on hoping for the best just through Taxi submissions. Don't know what to think other then my submissions to Taxi listings may be limited at this point. I don't see the point in paying $5 a shot for all these returns, particularly when I can be applying to libraries on my own. But how many libraries do you need to be in anyway? With being in 4 that I believe are pretty decent, and others I'm not as sure about., it really does keep me fairly busy. The forums have been great , the submitting tracks knowing I am submitting alongside some of he best in the business.....not a waste of time or money given everything I've learned there and meeting some great helpful people. But as far as directly making contacts through Taxi, haven't made a one really. SO I'm really not intending to make those sound like a whining session....but how do we address this with composers such as myself when we are considering whether or not to renew? Really will be openminded about this if there is a good argument to be made here. And how do we address thie criticisms made elsewhere, legit or not, that Taxi is a pay to play type of service? Rather then dissuade people from re-upping their membership I am hoping some good arguments can be made to convince me and others like me to re-up. If I can make one rule about the responses is that it has to include something other then Taxi TV and the (by all accounts excellent) free Roadside Rallies, for the benefit of those don't attend these much. Thanks all.

User avatar
SteveJCurtis
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1008
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:04 am
Gender: Male
Location: Halesworth, Suffolk, UK
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by SteveJCurtis » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:45 am

Hi Chuck.
I hear what you are saying and here's my personal view for what it's worth.
It took me 6 years of hemming and hawing on whether to join Taxi or not, and I finally joined 2 and half years ago.
In the first 2 years I didn't even look at the Forums, and every song I submitted ( around 10 or 12 ) was returned.
I joined the Forum this past March, and since then have learned SO much through P2P and other Boards/Contacts on here, that I had my first Forward the following June, and have had several since.

I feel that Taxi / Taxi Community has helped me "up" my game so that I'm getting Forwards now, and by the Law Of Beverages, hopeful will start getting Placements in future. I have seen growth and development in the quality of my material because of Taxi, and for that reason, I will be re-newing my membership.

Just my opinion. It works for me and I wish you success with your music whatever you decide to do.

Very best regards
Steve

CHuckmott
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1406
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 7:14 pm
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by CHuckmott » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:54 am

I hear you Steve and I would say the same thing thing, that it's a great way to up your game in the shortest possible time. FOr the record I got accepted into libraries largely due to much of the improvements and feedback I've gotten in P2P especially. Feel like I have gotten my money's worth that way. But given that, I don't know at this point, again having gotten into some on my own where the benefits are of reupping. Sure there are some.....

Kolstad
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 4525
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:19 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by Kolstad » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:45 am

ML sometimes says that Taxi is just one of the avenues you should explore with your music. I know returns at 5$ is frustrating, but as far as I can see, some of the opportunities at Taxi you can't find elsewhere. There are some very good libraries that use Taxi, because they don't want to review the 1000s of tracks they'd get if they made submitting to them easy. Remember for the big $ listings, the competition is fierce, and you are up against experienced guys working in 100.000k studios that are submitting too. Everything looks the same on the Internet, but we have to keep expectations in perspective.

So, one argument is that Taxi offers opps for some very "hard to get in" type of libraries. Those are often where your tracks can earn more, so you might be in 4 or more libraries that are not as hard to get in, but down the road you might want to expand in the better ones, and that's where you can use Taxi.

However if you get low scores on your returns now, you might choose to gain experience submitting more to the ones you are already in at this point, and when you feel your music has reached a new peak, renew your membership to try with the high bar listings.

User avatar
Casey H
King of the World
King of the World
Posts: 12461
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by Casey H » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:06 am

Chuck
First, everyone has to go with what works best for THEM. There is no one size fits all answer as to how to market your music.

That being said, I wanted to comment on your getting into libraries on your own. Keep in mind that not all libraries are created equal, some are more selective than others and therefore appeal to a higher end client base. I'm not at all saying you can't get into high quality libraries on your own. But just be careful that you don't equate getting music into lower end libraries with achieving your goals. (I have no idea which libraries you are in, so the above could be meaningless).

Personally, I think the renewal rate of $199 is pretty inexpensive for the possibility of making even 1-2 new contacts you wouldn't have otherwise made. Pushing yourself to get Taxi forwards (Taxi screening is pretty darn selective!) is one way to improve your skills. If you can get Taxi forwards, your music is that much better for when you approach libraries on your own. An added perk!

I'm NOT trying to talk you into renewing. As I said, what works for some doesn't work for others. Just make sure that you are not selling yourself short.

Warmest,
:D Casey

User avatar
admin
Site Admin
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:42 am
Location: Calabasas, CA
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by admin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:27 pm

Crap, just when I thought I could spend the morning sending out thank you notes to the panelists, teachers, mentors, attendees, and volunteers who participated in the Road Rally…

I also wish I wasn’t as dimwitted as I still feel from Rally fatigue, but I’ll take a shot at this anyway. Please excuse any typos :oops:

Chuck, we support free speech, and I leave posts like this up for the world to see, but I will say that virtually every time I call a member (on the phone) after a post like this they say, “Man, I posted that in a moment of frustration.”

What I found most interesting in your post was that you have set up a “rule” that, “If I can make one rule about the responses is that it has to include something other then Taxi TV and the (by all accounts excellent) free Roadside Rallies, for the benefit of those don't attend these much.”

That’s sort of like telling a golfer who’d like to play on the PGA tour but didn’t make the cut to not mention that they didn’t do all the things the folks who DID make the cut did. If we’ve got the tools to help you GET forwarded and you choose not to use them, can you really blame us?

I’d also like to ask why you didn’t follow the protocol that we ask for – to post issues like this in the proper place on the forum along with the listings, your songs submitted, and the entire critique from the screener? Sometimes I feel like posts like these are to gain sympathy from the masses, and cause a pile on so TAXI looks like the “bad guy.”

I did take the time to listen to your “Cue Reel” on Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/chuck-mott

And then I listened to Keith Lubrant’s music on his Soundcloud page:

https://soundcloud.com/keith-lubrant

Keith gets lots of forwards, signs a lot of deals, and gets lots of placements. I hear a difference. It might only be a 20% difference, but that 20% counts!

So, why don’t we make Monday’s TAXI TV about your songs and this issue? I’ll be happy to read the listings, play your songs, and read the critiques on the show Monday. I’ll also play some of the songs or tracks that were forwarded. Are you game?

Back to your “rule” that we shouldn’t talk about the Rally, TAXI TV, etc. The truth is obvious to those of us who DO (or see others who do) all of those things. The members who get the most forwards, deals, and placements DO go to the Rally, they DO watch TAXI TV nearly every week, and they DO post their songs and tracks in the Peer to Peer section of the forum.

I’m SO willing to talk about this issue publicly that I brought it up on a couple of panels at the Rally for all to hear. And the answer I got from the panelists was, “Do NOT lower the bar!” I even had a flurry of TAXI members come up to me after the panels and implore me to not lower the bar. Frankly, I was surprised by that!

The members who DO get forwards and deals are ostensibly submitting to the same listings, getting heard by the same screeners, and they’re all using the same service you’re using, but getting a different result. What are the variables?

The music submitted, and the listings that music is pitched to. Those two variables are almost always the difference. And in past posts like this, and I think the more senior forum members who’ve been around long enough have seen hundreds of posts like yours over the years -- invariably, the first couple of responses are caring and sympathetic. And in most cases, shortly after those responses are posted, others chime in with, “Well, there IS this issue or that,” or “I tend to agree with the screener.”

Again, we have a method for posting complaints like this. Do it in the Review Station area of the forum, and post the song, the listing, and the critique so we have all the info to go on.

One final thought. There are libraries, and there are libraries. What is good for a lower bar library that will take almost anything isn’t going to fly for a one of the top tier companies. There are even cases where a member gets something in one of higher bar libraries that we didn’t forward to the same library. But if you read the listing, heard the music, and had to make the decision yourself whether to forward or not, you would likely agree that the piece didn’t fit what they were looking for.

We’ve considered creating a “This is really good, but it doesn’t fit what you’re looking for” file that goes along with the stuff they WERE asking for. The problem with that is that the member would see that the track is forwarded, but then again, it might not be for the next submission, and then they’d say, “But you forwarded it last time!”

So Chuck, do I have your permission to play your songs on TAXI TV on Monday, along with the listings, and the critiques?

On to those Rally thank you notes!

Michael

P.S. We also have staff members who are more than happy to speak on the phone with members about issues like these. Have you reached out to our staff yet to discuss this issue?

User avatar
jaredlutes
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:04 pm
Gender: Male
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by jaredlutes » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:50 pm

Hey Michael! If Chuck doesn't respond, you have my permission to play my music on Monday! LOL! Your personal critique of one of my songs on TAXI TV a few months ago really inspired me to keep on rocking, and delve into the world of recording for myself. I think my songs have benefited greatly. You really encouraged me to get into the driver's seat, and stick with it. My latest music is below.

I have the same frustrations as Chuck (and many others), and I do need to vent occasionally - to convince myself that I'm not wasting my time on a costly and dead-end career at the expense of a 'normal' life. It's tough for guys like us to live in our basements, in isolation, with little feedback and encouragement - working tirelessly on our 'babies' - only to have them rejected in a brief review. That is enough to crush the spirits of some people. I get that.

But the MAIN reason why my music has improved is because of some tough TAXI love, and the extra-curricular help that no other company bothers to do. Your advice about not being 'precious' with our music is really a foundation of my philosophy. It's a product; make it personal and take it seriously. But if it's not good enough - make it better! If you can't - move on to the next one. I've taken that to heart.

I would love to see an episode about Chuck's music - some critique and comparison, strengths and weaknesses. He's got some great stuff, and some that might need tweaking (who doesn't). See you Monday!

https://soundcloud.com/jaredlutes/sets/ ... sessions-1
Jared Lutes, BA (Honours), MA
- Professional Musician & Amateur Daddy
www.jaredlutes.com

mobster85
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:57 pm
Gender: Male
Location: https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by mobster85 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:16 pm

Chuck I can honestly say that I have benefitted from being a Taxi member even though I have only submitted a couple of times with no forwards. I am learning what it takes to move my music and especially recording and mixing and matering to a new level. The things I have learned about recording an acoustic or classical guitar with a mic as opposed to direct. The emphasis on taking my time with vocal tracks. The inspiration that you get from these people on the forum. I have not been as committed as I need to be but after doing some soul searching with the help of some members recently I am re-dedicating myself to the process. It might take me longer but hell I'm 54 and I have lots of time left on this earth. If nothing else then maybe being a member helps you to focus on life too. That is my opinion on why you should continue being a member. Good luck to you my friend and keep rockin. Peace, Bob LoGrasso.

User avatar
Robtoons
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 838
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:36 am
Gender: Male
Location: Healdsburg, CA
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by Robtoons » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:59 pm

Hi Chuck,
Well If Michael's response isn't an endorsement for the value of Taxi, I don't know what is.
In what other corporation that will the CEO contact you personally when there is a concern- your bank? Insurance company? I don't think so.
Taxi has around 10,000 members world wide from what I hear, and to get this level of attention from the CEO, well, that's pretty cool.

One reason I can think of for you to stick around, is that I, (and probably many others) have seen your improvement since I started hearing your stuff on P to P. Some of the first tracks I heard I recall thinking, really? -this is so sloppy the guitars and drums don't even come close to locking to a groove. (sorry, harsh) But lately- I don't hear that anymore. Your stuff is really taking shape! I don't know how much of that has to do with anything you might have picked up here, but if the answer is any, then there may be more improvement to be had where that came from. I think we all want to keep improving our skills on a continuing basis, don't we? (I know I do, and believe me I've got a long way to go).

Anyhow, don't mean to sound like a cheerleader here, but from what I've seen over the past couple of years (and particularly at the unmentionable Road Rally)
this is a quality company with quality leadership.
I hope you don't feel like you've "been told" by the man, I think he's actually trying to help.
I hope we get to hear your stuff on the show!

All the best, cheers! -Rob

Len911
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5351
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Peculiar, MO
Contact:

Re: DIsappointing returns (s).....

Post by Len911 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:33 pm

From my perspective, it's primarily a money issue. Pre depression I had such a disposable income that the cost of taxi and attending the road rally would have been nothing. Post depression, there's no question for me, because I don't have a pot to piss in. :shock:
Pre depression I had the money, but not the time because I was always on the road, so I didn't get to take full advantage of a taxi membership. My situation is probably extreme I know, there was a time when yes, the price of a cappacino a day from starbucks was miniscule, but now when I hear that, :oops: :lol: it sounds odd, and it reminds me that I can't even afford that!

I don't think anyone wants the pity from the masses for being poor, so they maintain a middle-class mindset. It becomes not so much champagne on a beer budget, rather beer on a beer budget because I like beer and don't like the taste of champagne. Bottom line, it's primarily justification for having limited resources.

If taxi was free, I'm not advocating it to be, just stating as a hypothetical, lol, I don't think there would be posts like this. Of course there will always be a few "why doesn't taxi recognize my greatness" posts, but that's another matter, and not directly connected to the cost issue or this post.

There will always be personal frustrations, though with having the money and patience to submit and forget, and the drive to keep pushing forward and improving, the personal frustrations would be a mole hill and not a mountain.
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests