Dissecting a hit

[onoffon]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, Matt, and yours is duly noted.However, I completely disagree with you. Take, for instance, our song "Mardi Gras". In the days of Mp3.com, when it was owned by Universal/Vivendi, they actually chose to feature it on the front page of their website. When they did that, the song peaked on their overall Top 40 at #15, right next to Madonna, Faith Hill, Linkin Park, and Queens of the Stone Age. It held #1 on the Jazz charts for a total of 73 days. I know - you'll say, internet charts mean nothing, but I say they at least show potential. With the right marketing campaign, to the right demographic, that song could easily go platinum. On Mp3.com alone it was downloaded more than 100,000 times.And that's just that song. In total, we've had ten of our songs reach #1 on every website that we uploaded music to that have internet charts, including BroadJam, BeSonic, Mp3.com, GarageBand, and countless others I can't even remember.We don't simply write complex tunes with timing and chord changes to display our musical dexterity. In fact, many reviews we've received have stated how accessible our music is to casual listeners as well as aficionados.BTW, I'm sorry that you have to take my opinion as condescending and pitiful...

[sgs4u]

Matto, I never want to be on the other side of a debate with you. I believe a hit song is always a combination of 2 things. No matter how great a song is, it cannot be a "hit" until it has been listened to a few million times. Many of the people on this forum are writing potential hit songs, but without the marketing push of a label and artist continually flogging it, do we ever hear them?My definition of a hit song, has to include the fact that I've had it pumped into my head by various media. Even when I know a song is fabulous, it's not really a hit to me until it has been "exploited," to the masses. "My hump, my hump", is not a hit song for any other reason than it's been shoved into our ears by the biz. I love Fergie, I think she's actually a wicked singer/entertainer, but can that song be described as great? But there is no denying that it is a "hit." Sometimes the language we all use is very subjective. We all want to believe our songs matter, especially the ones we think could be hits. But aren't hit songs a little bit like GREAT BEER? We consume them, and quickly move on to the next. The labels release flavours, re-package old ones we love...I remember songs, and they're attached to the emotions I felt when I heard those songs. I was 17 when I first heard Janis Ian's "17." But the bubblegum/beer aspect of hit songs, will always be a huge part of the business of selling music. steve

[sgs4u]

Quote:condescending and pitiful... I don't think Matto said your opinion was pitiful...saying something is a pity is quite different.

[onoffon]

Whatever - I don't know why I even participate in these discussions. Someone always tells me my opinion is wrong.I don't really understand - I'm condescending because I "belittled" a hit song. Reading back my postings, I didn't qualify the song good or bad. I did infer that the song was a hit because of the marketing behind it. I did say the lyrics weren't particularly insightful or meaningful, but that still doesn't qualify the song as good or bad.Some GREAT songs become hits - some TERRIBLE songs become hits - either way, it takes an extreme marketing campaign to get them there, no matter how good or bad the song is. That's my point here.

[sgs4u]

I certainly LOVE your opinions. And I completely agree about the marketing being as, or more important than the song iteslf.But why does "that's a pity" = pitiful whatever - is not an answer

[onoffon]

Okay - The exact quote was, "And when you belittle that... it just comes across as condescending. And that's a pity."So, it's a pity that I show the appearance of condescension when I belittle the craft of hit songwriting by inferring that marketing may be more important than the ability to write a hit song... is that right? I think so...Pitiful, by definition, means 'deserving or arousing pity', therefore, my opinion is pitiful in its appearance of condescension.Whatever...

[arkjack]

I think this leads to some intriguing insight...... I think sometimes we lose sight of the commercial aspects of "the songsmithing business". They call it the "record industry or the music business" but what it really is all part of is the ENTERTAINMENT industry, which includes film, TV, music, concerts, broadway... As musicians, we are actually part of a recreation industry.... the same as fishing, or mountain biking... The difference is that entertainment is a passive mode where someone else does the work to keep your attention and make you feel good... versus an activity you do to entertainyourself.... I have music as a pastime for recreation.... versus "watching tv" for recreation.... we watch TV or listen to music for "entertainment". Thus, Kelly's song has the elements that "entertain" as a song in and of itself.... a cover of this song by another artist might have the same impact.... versus the Nellie song about humping.... in order to be entertaining, it is packaged with an artist/entertainer personality element to make it work... only thing missing is the poles and a place to stick the dollar bills.... I think a true hit song is a real entity.... we used to call them standards, in rock we call them classics... and though sgs4u has a valid point that over the years some of it was shoved down our throats.... a majority of it is worthy hit song material.... doesn't matter who sings it or what band plays it... the song can stand on its own as entertainment.... and I think this is really what makes a great hit song.... versus the package hit, that needs an artist entertainer personality and schtick to make it viable... there is some element of the true hit song that makes it classic... Margaritaville, Just the Way you are... This Masquerade... Misty Fly me to the moon.... Alice... Look in the graveyard of one hit wonders and hadbeens.... you'll probably find alot of songs that are married to the act and can't stand on their own...ArkJack

[horacejesse]

I have learned something here. All hit songs are great songs and that greatness is what made them hits, not marketing.Yes, the lyrics to My Hump are deeply meaningful and insightful. And if you have anything bad to say about a hit song, guess what, pal, you are jealous and pathetic.The original song quoted here is pathetic garbage and it took no skill to write it (that's right I did say no skill), only someone innocent and inexperienced enough not to know any better. So then it became a hit and is quoted on the Taxi board. I have not even this heard this abomination, only read the lyrics. That's quite enough for me, please do not provide a link.I am not saying that I would not want to be collecting the royalties from it. But no matter how many royalties it generates it will never be a good song to anyone who knows the first thing about music. It is not only childish but simply inane. Most of us try our hand at a piece of shit now and then, that doesn't mean we think we are working on an all time classic.Nor does it mean that I should take someone seriously who has the brain of a fourteen year old and has written a song to prove it. It is my opinion that a good songwriter could never have written that song. First of all, it would have ended up in a good songwriter's wastebasket instead of on a producer's desk.Now let me ask this: if a person did not believe their own songs are a lot better than this garbage, why would they be a Taxi member in the first place. They wouldn't. Period. It is only this belief that keeps the booty rolling into the Taxi coffers, so I don't think it is anything to be criticized.I too believe I have already written songs much better than this one with just as much hit potential. And if I were to be convinced otherwise I would be glad to hang myself with the first available rope.Dig it, folks, there is not a single image in Since You've Been Gone. Not one. I am not impressed by the word "cool" or the phrase "here's the thing." Here's my review of this song: "Big F@#$$% deal, and I accept no defenses of it artistically, only economically.

[matto]

Quote:But no matter how many royalties it generates it will never be a good song to anyone who knows the first thing about music.Actually you've never even heard the song, by your own admission...so I'm not sure how you can comment on the music. I thank you however for informing me that I don't know the first thing about music. I think I'm gonna cry myself to sleep tonight...

[Casey H]

OMG!!How did this thread turn out to be so full of anger? I thought I was posting something helpful to songwriters. Now, I'm sorry I ever started this thread.I don't think one person has commented on the positive aspects of the lyrics to the song. Maybe I'm the only one who thought the conversational and youthful** nature of some of the lyric were examples of good songwriting techniques. (** the average age of the music buying public is probably under 25).All this anger... I don't get it. Casey