Does this sound finished???

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cassmcentee
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Does this sound finished???

Post by cassmcentee » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 pm

Yesterday I bathed this song in mud,
today...?
I just don't know any more :(
What Frequencies Are Hurting It???

"A Horse Named Thundercloud"
http://snd.sc/1bVcSfZ

Thank You,
Cass

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by Kolstad » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:13 am

I don't know, I really think it's a nice song! Love the concept and the arrangement. Really solid and moving! It sounds a la Steve Earle's "Copperhead road".

There might be some issues in the mixing. I found the acoustic sounding too edgy and bright. I loved the parts, but hated the tone of it. So maybe if you have some processing on, pull it off and try to make it more natural sounding without the prescence boost.

The bass was also much too dominant in the fuller sections, imo. So if you could pull that back 4-5db and get a little more prescence instead (perhaps light distortion or eq) at unity gain.

I wondered how it would sound if you started the piece at 8sec, instead of the attentiongrabber at 1? Would make a different build of the piece.. could try that?

Dunno, it's a really nice one, well worth every effort, methinks!

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by SteveJCurtis » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:36 am

Hey Cass. Great track.
Is the acoustic in drop D with very light strings on it? If so, maybe some heavier strings might help do the trick sonically.
However, I don't think its a bad sound now; sounds like a heavy lacquered top Yamaha we used to have, and the part is lovely.
I like the drive guitar sound - not sure what guitar you used but wonder if a slower bit of tremolo bar waggle would suit that part a little more than the faster finger vibrato? I am being too picky I know, so ignore me!
All the best,
Steve

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by cassmcentee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:46 am

Thanks Guys,

Magne... I've been battling this acoustic for weeks now... The initial hit tells my ears it's all wrong so, yes, pull back some compression and with a shovel dig out some of it's MidZ's
In the morning I'll look into the 8sec start, you could be on to something there!
Reigning in the bass as well.

To whom I'm ignoring... :lol:
Drop D(yes, but medium Elixers on my Taylor 410ce)
By "drive guitar" do you mean the lead or the Power Chord
I have 3 guitars and one keyboard working as a team doing the Power Chords and the tremolo intro
The finger tremolo was pulling the feedback out of the amp to get that tone(Telecaster/Hot Rod Deluxe w/German Tubes)
although the first sound is the keyboard

Back into the mix,
Much Appreciated,
Cass

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by Len911 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:33 am

cassmcentee wrote:Yesterday I bathed this song in mud,
today...?
I just don't know any more :(
What Frequencies Are Hurting It???

"A Horse Named Thundercloud"
http://snd.sc/1bVcSfZ

Thank You,
Cass
Comb filtering. When a signal is reflected and combined with itself, the parts where the two frequencies are in phase are boosted,louder, while the out of phase signals are attenuated. The signals that are attenuated will contribute to the hollow sound. The whole spectrum probably exhibits the "comb", so that's probably why you've been frustrated trying to eq, for example if 100hz is boosted and 101 hz is attenuated, 102hz boosted, 103hz attenuated...Here's a video explanation I found.

http://youtu.be/Zic2eNbxNmY
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by feaker66 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:41 am

cass

Glad I am not very polished when it comes to breaking down a song.. Sounds great to me:)

Like when it comes alive at 1:12. I do hear the acoustic get lost in a few spots though.

Your song to me is one that makes you feel like you are gaining confidence. Crazy I know, but that's what I hear.

It's all there, tweak the snot out of it.

Paul
Thankfully, while growing old is compulsory, growing up remains optional!

https://soundcloud.com/feaker66

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by cassmcentee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:53 am

Len... I bet you nailed it! Homework begins...NOW!!! (I used two mics, an MXL-V69 and a 57)
I've been thinking that I should just redo the acoustic with a dif mic setup but I'll go thru the video first and see if I can do it from the captain's chair.

Paul... Thank you, I've always recorded myself but never with the drive I have had this year. Played in lots of bands and we always used studios and engineers and producers. This is my REAL stab at doin' it myself, got a lot of catch-up and a huge learning curve to break through!!! I want to have the CD packaged, ready for the Road Rally.

Gratitude for the listens and the help!
Cass

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by billhewett » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:52 am

Hey Cass,

I agree with everyone else's assessment of the bass being too loud in the mix. It also seems to have the same "boomy" issue that you had on "Here I Go Again", though not nearly as much.

There are two tricks I learned that help with this, and I'm not sure if they are industry standards or just home recording hacks that are frowned upon in professional producer circles... but here they are:

1. Kill everything below 200Hz on *all* instruments that don't need to be in that range... guitars, banjos, any drums/percussion other than kick/timpani/really low floor toms/etc. That will help the bass/kick/etc push through the mix without you having to make it LOUDER.

2. When you get to mastering the mix, play with cutting the really low low end... sub 100Hz, or a little higher/lower depending on your instrumentation and mix. Don't go crazy or you'll end up with the tinniest sounding piece of crap you've ever recorded... trust me ;o)

I didn't have such a strong reaction to the guitar as some of the other members who have responded, but my one piece of advice on that is the "more the merrier" concept... when I record acoustic guitars I generally close mic a small-diaphragm condenser and a large-diaphragm condenser, and use a line/pickup if available. I might end up using only one of those sources, or two, or all three, but however it ends up I have a better palette of organic sounds to start with, so I can get the sound I want/need for the mix with fewer effects. If I really wanted to go all out I would put on a dynamic mic, too, and set up a second large-diaphragm condenser at the other side if the room or as an overhead, but I'm not usually energetic enough to set all of that up! And thinking about the phase issue, any time you use two similarly placed microphones on an instrument the has a wide tonal spectrum, they should be the same distance from whatever they are recording. For a low instrument (as in, kick drum low) you have more flexibility because the wave lengths are *so* long you would have to go out of your way to have a hard core cancellation, but when I put overhead mics over a drum kit I learned to use a string to make sure they are equidistant from the center of the snare.

So, as you know I am new to the board... and I'm not sure who knows what already and what is "common knowledge", so forgive me if I just wrote a long post of stuff everybody knows already! I'll catch on soon enough, but at this point I just want to participate as much as possible, to get the most out of Taxi and give back where I can :o)

Oh, by the way... no comments from me on writing/structure/arrangement, "A Horse Named Thundercloud" is a solid, satisfying tune!

-Bill

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cassmcentee
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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by cassmcentee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:07 am

Thank you Bill...
I am absorbing every comment and touching the mixes with everyone's fingers, your's included!
I have a lifetime of catching up to do in the engineer's seat.
I'm sure once I get a grasp of the frequencies and get them all seated at the table where they belong I will be able to breeze into writing for the listings.
Thank you for the advice, I'll be working on it all day!

Sincerely,
Cass
P.S. I saved your notes on "Here I Go Again" and kept them up while I remixed (Andry Gabrys gave me a punchlist and I did the same thing)
yesterday's mix for "Here I Go Again" is here...
http://snd.sc/15dBRJD

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Re: Does this sound finished???

Post by SteveJCurtis » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:48 am

[quote="cassmcentee"]

To whom I'm ignoring... :lol:
Drop D(yes, but medium Elixers on my Taylor 410ce)
By "drive guitar" do you mean the lead or the Power Chord
I have 3 guitars and one keyboard working as a team doing the Power Chords and the tremolo intro
The finger tremolo was pulling the feedback out of the amp to get that tone(Telecaster/Hot Rod Deluxe w/German Tubes)
although the first sound is the keyboard

:lol: I meant the lead guitar that comes in at 1.12 - sorry, shoulda said! But I listened again and it sounds great so ignore me again.

PS - thanks to Bill for some cool advice on the mics thing there.

Cheers/Steve

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