For the country writers:

[rivercitymusic]

No argument with you with regards to your comments.All i do is write lyrics and attach a melody to them that can be played on an accoustic guitar.You may be referring to a performing artist.I'll say it again, respectfully, that if any of the past 20 Toby Keith hit songs in lyric and melody format (a good voice and an accoustic guitar) had been sent through Taxi.com they would have been forwarded for their lyrics and melody worth. To assume other wise would be pretty amazing IMHO.Why? Because great songs are great to everyone. Not Demos, but the lyrics and melody grab you or they don't. And then again not everyone like CW so a heavy metal student may not like it all so i'm assuming that we're talking apples to apples.Doc

[claire]

If someone would ever think that Taxi.com and it's A&R's would not have know to forward any one of Toby Keiths last 20 songs simply because it was from an unknown, they'd be kinda foolish. Even more so if it were a complete song with a full 5 piece back up and a great voice (something i can't provide either by self or by expense).Toby Keith is an interesting example to use, specifically because for a long time nobody wanted any of his stuff. "How Do You Like Me Now" was written as a single-digit salute to his old record label that pretty much didn't give a damn if he lived or died. Figuratively, that is.It would be wonderful if "great songs are great to everyone" but they aren't. The contradiction to that comment comes in your next sentence ("the lyrics and melody grab you or they don't"). Nothing is black and white, nothing is great for everyone, nothing is awful for everyone. It's all a matter of taste and luck and timing and smarts.And back to Toby Keith - he recorded a lot of his songs on his own because nobody else would. Betcha Taxi wouldn't forward his latest "She Never Cried In Front of Me".Claire

[jay10music]

I think it's important when you talk about songs like that of Toby keith and then adk if TAXI would have forwarded them. Well do you mean forward hiim and his song as an artist? Toby gets away with a lot of that because he writes a lot of his own songs. A lot easier to get cut when you are the artist writing them. Would they forward it for a rascall flatts listing? probably not.That song is well written, sans some of the verse clutter.Jimi

[squids]

I thought Toby got away with that because he was fairly well known. I don't think Taxi would necessarily forward someone who was unknown just because he's a good singer and he writes his own songs (same fo females, no discrimination here! ). I think we've heard that a lot; that the unknown writers/performers here absolutely must be exceptional to make it past the Taxi bar in order to compete with the bigger machine out there. I agree, the verses are a bit messy. Good song though. Got your newsletter, Jimi. Congrats incoming!

[cameron]

Well, I've said a few times that you could submit a current song out of the country top 40 and the chances are it would not get forwarded, because songs get cut for a number of reasons, not the least of which is politics. When you add the fact that taste is subjective and that the song may not be what the listing is asking for (at least not in the screener's opinion) then the odds are always stacked against you for any given listing. I have a song that got 6s and 7s on a Taxi custom critique and Jason Blume tore the lyrics to shreds at the BMI Songwriters Workshop, but it also got a Taxi forward for a George Strait listing and a Best of SongU nomination (by a CMA Song of the Year songwriter). They all listened to exactly the same recording with no changes... so that's why you gotta trust your own judgment and keep trying. Just try to be objective and make it as good as it can be in your eyes.That said, I wouldn't want to be trying to compete against a pro demo with a guitar instrumental and a lyric sheet. My pro demos ALWAYS get higher scores than my homemade work tapes, even when the song doesn't change at all. Leaving things up the the listener's imagination will hurt your chances big time.Cam

[claire]

Well, I've said a few times that you could submit a current song out of the country top 40 and the chances are it would not get forwarded, because songs get cut for a number of reasons, not the least of which is politics. That's true. The song George Strait sang on the CMA awards, "Rolling On The River Of Love" (or some title similar) would not have been forwarded by Taxi if I had written it and submitted it, and I say that with absolute certainty. The Sugarland song "All I Want To Do" would not have been forwarded. I'd bet that even the Brad Paisley/Keith Urban song about starting a band wouldn't have been forwarded because we would have been told that we are not supposed to write songs about being musicians because not enough people can relate. I agree with Cam that you could pick a top 40 country song at random, submit it, and it would not be forwarded.And off topic - has anyone else noticed the remarkable rhythmic and melodic similarity in the first few lines of Sugarland's "Already Gone" to Bob Dylan's "The Times They Are A'Changin'"? I'm thinking about ripping off a classic, not note for note but pretty darned close, and then putting my own lyrics on it. Sure would be easier than coming up with a melody of my own Claire

[adrienne]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's views on this. I tend to agree with Cam and Claire. I think a lot of the top 40 country songs out today wouldn't get forwarded by TAXI. A lot of them are on radio because of who the writers know, not necessarily because they're great songs.That doesn't mean there aren't some great top 40 hits out there and that some songs that don't get forwarded couldn't be hits. How many times have we heard of a song getting turned down tons of times before it becomes a hit? While there's some formula to writing a hit song, if you get that right, it still is subjective on whether people like it. I've had songs with great critiques and forwards from TAXI, and then other screeners returned those same songs. While I'm a music lover I find that when I listen to songs, I listen as a songwriter. I listen to how the song is crafted, the lyrics, the melody etc. I know the general public as a whole doesn't do this, they're listening for how the song made them feel. Hopefully what I think is a great song from the perspective of songwriting is the same as what a non-songwriter thinks is a great song. Sometimes, it doesn't always work that way though. There are some songs on the radio today that make me change the station! Yet they're #1! Perhaps I should look at writing some songs I don't like...maybe they'll be hits

[cameron]

Any of you who belong to SongU, take a look at Craig Bickhardt's journal entires in the library (go to "library" then "Craig Bickhardt Wing") and you'll see we're not the only frustrated country songwriters. Very interesting reading.Cam

[rivercitymusic]

First of all i'm only talking about songs. Lyrics, melody, voice. Nothing else.My original intent was to bring to the surface that great songs, or good songs, songs that are worth their salt are played. That's the industry. IMHO Nothing else gets played for the most part and never will.An A&R, Record Label and Artist are the pros. Not us wannabees, although some of the wannabees will hopefully one day break through and we'll be talking about how we knew them when they were one of us. That is the majic of writing lyrics. If the hook is good enough the pros will know it. Sure it'll have to be modified a lot of times by the pros; but the basic lyrics they hear move them or don't. If they get moved, it'll get forwarded in time if it's a really good or great set of lyrics. How i support this is take any of the top 100 CW songs today and i can put at least 25 great artists behind the mic with a great band and it'll still be great. That's what i call a great song. A song that stands on its own and does not rely on a name brand, a label, etc. to be great. It's great on it's own. That's what i was trying to say. Sorry i was so poor at it. This group of professionals i noted above, if they were to have heard one of TK's past 20 hits played by a "musician" on an accoustic guitar and sung by someone with a quality voice but neither of these two individuals were currently a performing artist; Taxi would have forwarded them to ??? someone within time. Simply because they are great songs.TK's songs are good/great to the general listening audience, which is the final determining factor in any songs success. He's not God. He's just on a 15 year roll and will be forever since he now has amassed a fortune and can continue without nashville forever. He'd have to be found out to be a terrorist before his fans would leave his side.I'm not saying that he's the benchmark. maybe i should have suggested someone not so controversial, i don't know.I'm just saying that you can read over lots of lyrics, not songs with a 5 piece back up and a pro singer, just the lyrics and these pros can readily tell if they have any promise. That's why they are the pros and not us. We'd be producing our own music good or bad and lying to ourselves all the time about how good they were.Lyrics are the root of a song in my opinion that require a matched voice to nurture it off of the paper and into a great song. A melody won't make it great but it will make it flow.My hat's off to studio musicians but you can take any one of the top 1000 in each instrument and get nearly the same quality of music out of a studio. It's the lyrics that people hear and remember, not the music, although the music is very important. So, IMHO, the lyrics are the most important segment to the song, then the voice, and lastly the music, which makes it flow smoothly. We'd all tire of accapella (spelling?)they are all important but if you'll think about it, with out music you still have a great song. withouth the lyrics all you have is an instrumental, not a song. kinda speaks for it's self.Doc

[rivercitymusic]

With regards to:"It would be wonderful if "great songs are great to everyone" but they aren't. The contradiction to that comment comes in your next sentence ("the lyrics and melody grab you or they don't"). Nothing is black and white, nothing is great for everyone, nothing is awful for everyone. It's all a matter of taste and luck and timing and smarts."****************My response is:You've used a wedge to split an idea that did not need splitting. Great songs are great. Great songs sell records, that's what makes them great so a person can't argue with a great song. It's either great or it's not based on sales. That's all the industry CEO's care about. However, the fans determine what song is great and IMHO does so based on Lyrics.You may find someone or a group of people that do not like a specific style or type of music, but that does not keep it from being a great song. So to say "not everyone will like it" is like saying not everyone likes me. I've got an ex-wife and i'm certain she doesn't like me. i got the kids in the divorce! no wonder she doesn't like me. The above doesn't mean people don't like me. But not everyone likes everyone. And since music is generally wirtten for, offered to, and reviewed by someone looking for great songs in a specific genre, then in that process those A&R's will indeed know a bad, promising, good or great set of lyrics. And great songs get forwarded. I'd hate to think there are A&R's at Taxi that would say, "yeah I had several number one top hits come over my desk but i just couldn't forward them because I was certain someone somewhere would not like it".So your statement is really too general for music. I say this respectfully and without any ill intent.Again, i'm going to say (not including TK or his music) a great song when it is written will be realized by an A&R and will be forwarded. Sure all the planets have to align and you have to have a rabbits foot in your shoe, and no black cats on your path, and yadda yadda yadda. In the end only great lyrics become great songs. Great voices do not make songs. Great music does not make great songs. Songs are songs because of words. Words are lyrics and great lyrics make great songs.Ya'll are great for my mind. I now have a headache!lolDoc