Forward/Return ratios, expenses, etc.

[mojobone]

This doesn't come up often in the forums these days, (there was a time, not long past, in the days before Facebook, when political discussion was common, here) I am at least nominally a Republican; I live in a blue dot in a red state; the Austin, TX of Indiana, if you will, and the reason is so I can vote in primaries, to try to limit the damage done by Grover Norquist, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes to what was once the party of Lincoln. The last Republican president I coulda voted for was probably Eisenhower. I did vote for Reagan once, but the other choice was Mondale; my first vote as an American was wasted on third-party candidate John Anderson)

I'm also a veteran, my dad was, all my uncles were and so was my late brother and oddly, fewer than half of my many cousins. So when I say with a straight face that paying taxes is patriotic, I actually believe that, but speaking as a veteran, our colossal waste of blood and treasure for the sake of special interests and the military-industrial complex? Not a fan. I'm also not sure which 'Veep' was referred to, but I guess that doesn't matter, cuz I'm telling you exactly where I come from.

I wasn't trying to be political or elicit a political response. Had I known it would tickle you so, I would have kept my mouth SHUT. Actually I do believe it's about time I do just that and exit the scene.

Later DUDe

A thousand pardons; there was no snark intended in my post, (hence the smilies) I was just trying to open up a little about who I am, so I can get to hear your stories. And please, call me Mojo; all my friends do, and I theenk we're all friends here. My feathers are NOT ruffled, and I'm way too old for that puffing out the chest thing on the 'net, or elsewhere.

Soooo, story: today I'm standing in line to buy a gun, and I'm getting a little irritated by a guy waiting in line behind me, who's riffing about how Obummer is the greatest gun salesman in history, but I turned around and asked him a question, (a polite one, since he was openly carrying) and he turned out to be a very helpful guy who knew a lot about procedural details like how to legally get from my house to the gun range without a carry permit.

Anyways, as Americans, I think we might be getting a little too sensitive, these days, and I want y'all to know that when I say "dude" I mean it the way Sam Eliot meant it in the Big Lebowski, not how Tom Arnold meant it in Men In Black. How's about we all do a 'courtesy flush' and start over from square one?

[PeterD]

Spending $500 per year to market your music, that you make for zero cost except for your time and a few thousand to get started with computer and software - that is definitely small potatoes in the big scheme.

But to Peter and everyone else's credit who do see it as big potatoes - you have to go for what you want.

And if you want it bad enough, make the sacrifices to get there. Whether that be time, money, stuffing your ego, reading self-help books, visiting your Guru on the mountain top - whatever.......

I understand, but at what point is it no longer worth it? For example: Spending housands of dollars, year after year, and countless hours - to make a few thousand dollars? I think many people get caught up in that, forgetting why they wanted to get involved in the business in the first place. At that point, is it a personal challenge? To see if they can make it? I'm not sure how to answer this.

My father once told me, If something costs $10, and it's on sale for $1, but all you have is 25 cents in your pocket, is it really a good deal?

[TheElement]

Peter why not diversify. Still submit to Taxi but also try some free submissions to libraries.

I found a few. I'm not that into submitting so haven't done a ton (still honing my production skills). But they are out there if you do some research. In fact there's a place somewhere that lists libraries and gives them reviews. So yeah after spending a ton of money for a few years and you already spent a lot of time improving your tracks its time to cut cost and increase your bottom line.

Thats what I did in my pool biz after 5 years. started cutting cost, increased prices and raised my net profit. If we treat music as a biz I guess we should also run it like a biz.

One great thing about Taxi is by submitting to the listings and getting reviews on your tracks by qualified persons in the music biz will get you tracks up to industry standards. They are not going to forward a track that doesn't have a chance at getting into a library. Although I've had tracks that were forwarded that didn't make it into a library. I guess depends on the library and what they are looking for.

[Len911]

Spending $500 per year to market your music, that you make for zero cost except for your time and a few thousand to get started with computer and software - that is definitely small potatoes in the big scheme.

But to Peter and everyone else's credit who do see it as big potatoes - you have to go for what you want.

And if you want it bad enough, make the sacrifices to get there. Whether that be time, money, stuffing your ego, reading self-help books, visiting your Guru on the mountain top - whatever.......

I understand, but at what point is it no longer worth it? For example: Spending housands of dollars, year after year, and countless hours - to make a few thousand dollars? I think many people get caught up in that, forgetting why they wanted to get involved in the business in the first place. At that point, is it a personal challenge? To see if they can make it? I'm not sure how to answer this.

My father once told me, If something costs $10, and it's on sale for $1, but all you have is 25 cents in your pocket, is it really a good deal?

I prefer the word decision or choice over sacrifice. The choice you didn't make is not a sacrifice because you never possessed it.
There's probably not going to be much sympathy for someone who thinks $1000 is expensive from someone who has spent $10,000.
There is no guarantee of how much you spend correlating with success or achieving your end goal. You will likely never hear stories from the majority? that don't achieve their objectives. Enjoy the journey.

Peter, I think what you are saying might describe "confirmation bias". It's a natural tendency to believe we have made the right decisions and so double down in some cases before second guessing our decisions.

I think the best business advice I ever got, was when someone suggested I was in the wrong business and should maybe open up an ice cream shop, I replied that I didn't much care for ice cream, and she told me that was good because I wouldn't be eating up all the profits,lol!

I'm not sure music, as a passion, should ever be considered a business until it actually becomes a business and makes a profit. As for a composer, writer, or performer. Not necessarily for a music store. I just don't think one should focus on a profit if there is none, it's a diversion from the passion. When it becomes a business, take care of business.

[DesireInspires]

It's only money. Spend it.

[PeterD]

Gavin,

Keep in mind, this thread is Taxi specific. I haven't included the other avenues for pitching music (of which I am part of a few libraries - even a really high-profile one). I'm all about diversifying. With one of those, you can actually log in and see where the libraries are pitching the material (which is pretty cool).

As far as the screeners go, that's a whole other debate. I'll agree that some (not all) of the critiques make sense to me (for both forwards and returns). And others ...? Well, remind me to tell you some stories over a coffee in the Westin lobby. Your jaw will drop.

Kinda reminds me of my rental property's income/expense sheet a few years ago. That particular year it brought in $25,000. The expenses were $25,200 (not to mention I almost lost my mind!!!!)

[mojobone]

My father once told me, If something costs $10, and it's on sale for $1, but all you have is 25 cents in your pocket, is it really a good deal?

Spoken like a poor person, whose progeny are likely to remain poor. Call credit by its real name, which is leverage. You should only use leverage when you know more than the person you're borrowing from. It could be you know more about yourself and your motivation, or maybe you know more about a given market , but if you don't know more than your lender, you're probably screwed, because the people you borrow from didn't get it by accident.

For example, if it's on sale for a dollar and you have a quarter, could you use it to somehow make a dollar and a quarter? Depending on the interest rate, that might be a deal you'd make, any day of the week.

[mojobone]

Gavin,

Keep in mind, this thread is Taxi specific. I haven't included the other avenues for pitching music (of which I am part of a few libraries - even a really high-profile one). I'm all about diversifying. With one of those, you can actually log in and see where the libraries are pitching the material (which is pretty cool).

As far as the screeners go, that's a whole other debate. I'll agree that some (not all) of the critiques make sense to me (for both forwards and returns). And others ...? Well, remind me to tell you some stories over a coffee in the Westin lobby. Your jaw will drop.

Kinda reminds me of my rental property's income/expense sheet a few years ago. That particular year it brought in $25,000. The expenses were $25,200 (not to mention I almost lost my mind!!!!)

Excellent post and point; of course, we should always be pursuing opportunities outside of Taxi, because it's meant to be an arrow in our quivers, when targeting music buyers.

[mikemichnya]

I'm not sure music, as a passion, should ever be considered a business until it actually becomes a business and makes a profit. As for a composer, writer, or performer. Not necessarily for a music store. I just don't think one should focus on a profit if there is none, it's a diversion from the passion. When it becomes a business, take care of business.

IMHO, it becomes a business as soon as you start trying to make money doing it. It's the profit motive that defines it as a business. And like any other business, whether you're a musician, a butcher, a baker or a candlestick maker, even with a great product, service or idea, you still have to "take care of business" - although taking care of business doesn't guarantee success. Most businesses fail, even with good business practices. If you're in a creative business like songwriting, managing your business doesn't have to divert you from your passion, whatever it is. It just means you have to be organized and compartmentalize it. Create when you're creating, and take care of business when you have to.

Jason Blume and I grew up not five miles away from each other in Northeast Philadelphia, at just about the same time. He went to Northeast High, I went to Lincoln. He wrote his first song at 12, I wrote my first song at 14 (it was a co-write w/my friend, Steve Kellenbenz), but the difference was that I didn't think I could make money doing it. I went to college, landed in a career. Jason went to college, then to LA. We both kept writing songs, but Jason was actively trying to make money doing it. He may have lived in an efficiency apartment in a building populated by junkies, pimps and prostitutes (eating cat food to survive because "100% tuna is 100% tuna no matter what's on the label") and he may have had other jobs, but he was in the songwriting business.

Jason tells the story that when he started out in songwriting, his father asked him, "Jason, when are you going to give up this nonsense and get a real job?" (or words to that effect)... Jason replied, "You're right, dad. I'll tell you what - I'll give it 100 years. If I don't make it by then, I'll do something else." Jason re-wrote his first cut seven times. That got him in the room with other pro songwriters, which led to his first big cut, which led to everything else. Ultimately, it took him more than 11 years from the time he moved to LA until he got a staff writing deal. (Go to https://www.careersinmusic.com/songwriter/ for the rest of the story. Here's a link to Jason's advice about one aspect of the business: http://www.songwriter101.com/articles/e ... our_market.) And Jason says that if he can do it, you can to... but it ain't gonna be easy. You've got to really want it... and you've got to work really hard at it.

Meanwhile, I became a counselor. If I had had more confidence in my songwriting ability, if I was a better singer, if I liked to travel, if I had met Jason in high school, hell, if I had even known that there were people teaching songwriting back then, I might have moved to LA or Nashville myself. But I didn't. I kept writing and performing, went to the Philly Folk Fest every year, and as my songs got better, I decided to try to turn songwriting into a career. I write because I love to write. I may never turn a profit, or ever make any real money (it's a VERY competitive business), BUT I can't think of a better way to make a living. I'm in this business for LOVE and MONEY, but because it's such a competitive and specialized business, it's a lot harder to earn a living at, so I can't do it full time... yet.

I don't have a five year plan, though, because I'm in it for the long haul. I have a 'rest of my life' plan: write, submit, fail, learn from my mistakes, re-write, re-submit, fail better, repeat... until the failures become successes AND the successes start to pile up... AND I earn enough "mailbox money" from songwriting to pay my bills...

One reason to be hopeful: there are more consumers of music alive today than in the history of humankind, most of whom have access to your music over the internet... And Taxi is just one way to 'monetize' your creative efforts. Write great songs, and someone will want to hear them, and maybe even buy them... Heck, just today I got an email from a guy looking for a recording of one my novelty songs that he heard me do a capella ONCE 7 or 8 years ago at a song camp!

Be true to yourself, write what pleases you, put it out there, look for your audience... and 'take care of business!'

[Len911]

My father once told me, If something costs $10, and it's on sale for $1, but all you have is 25 cents in your pocket, is it really a good deal?

Spoken like a poor person, whose progeny are likely to remain poor. Call credit by its real name, which is leverage. You should only use leverage when you know more than the person you're borrowing from. It could be you know more about yourself and your motivation, or maybe you know more about a given market , but if you don't know more than your lender, you're probably screwed, because the people you borrow from didn't get it by accident.

For example, if it's on sale for a dollar and you have a quarter, could you use it to somehow make a dollar and a quarter? Depending on the interest rate, that might be a deal you'd make, any day of the week.

Maybe poor people are poor because they obey the laws of the rich. Maybe "screwed" is a term that legally allows a rich person to steal from the poor? Maybe the solution is to steal until the poor become rich and until they can prosper under the rules of the rich? Isn't that the Robin Hood principle?
Most likely the poor are poor because they don't have the constitution, for one reason or another, for revolution.