Genre definitions

[WhiteFort]

Hi, everyone. I haven't used the forum much, but I think I need to buckle down here. I'm the American manager for White Fort, which is a band based in Russia. I've left an intro post elsewhere, but in summary: I'm a complete music novice, in every sense of the word.

I've got a tough question for you pros:

How does a Music Noob identify the genre of individual songs?

Seriously. Is there some website or app or book or something, where I can RELIABLY learn both the major and fine points about music genres? I mean, GEEZE... OK, I can differentiate between, say, country and classical. I think can even tell deth metal from merely heavy metal. But I'm seeing words like "house," "industrial," "acid", "ambient", "trance".... AAAAAAAAAA! *brain kasplode* And excuse me but What The Heck IS "dubstep????"

Can you tell I'm a little frustrated?

I recently received a bunch of solo pieces that I would personally call "New Age/Electronica," from one of the band members. IMHO, some of them would sound awesome in a video game, some would work well as background music in a spa/yoga class/massage therapy office, and some I can imagine wafting out of a dorm room along with a haze of suspicious-smelling smoke.

I have no idea how to describe these songs, so I can submit them to opportunities. I just don't know enough about music to label them! And the guys in the band can't help--they can tell me what it is in Russian, but that's not useful.

I've asked this kind of question before and posted some links. People were very kind and gave me some great suggestions for the individual songs I posted. But I have dozens and dozens of songs that I really need to sort out... I need to learn how to do it myself. And ghod knows the web is full of sites where I can get crappy advice--I don't want to spend weeks just trying to figure out which sites are the crappy ones.

So... anyone? Can you recommend a good, concise, well-organized place to learn about music genres?

Mega thanks, in advance,
Jeanine
http://www.whitefort.net

[jdstamper]

I suggest doing a web search for the genre and look for a Wikipedia entry. I've used Wikipedia several times to get more details about a genre or sub-genre, and they usually provide examples of songs or bands that fit the genre.

Good luck. Jim

[WhiteFort]

Thanks, Jim. I think the trouble I have, though, is telling one genre from other similar genres. Particularly with this electronic music that I just got.

I mean, personally, they all sound like "background music." So are they "ambient," or "trance?" Both of those words mean, to me, mellow and kinda dreamy. I'm not sure what separates the two--and perhaps neither one is correct.

I kinda need something more like a map. Or a flow chart--that would be PERFECT. You know what I mean?

"Does it have (X)"

YES---> then does it have (Y)? NO----> then does it have Z?

with all kinds of branches, until you get to a final answer.

I'm totally hoping that something like that exists out there, and that someone here knows where I can find it.

[WhiteFort]

Holy cow, I think I found it! At least for electronic music.

http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

The little tutorial was also fascinating.

Can anyone confirm that this chart is correct?

[jazzstan]

I'd suggest a good way to use it would be to pick a sub-sub-sub genre and find some artists (wiki, last.fm) and then listen at Rdio or Spotify, etc. find more similar artists. And then listen to a whole lot of it, and perhaps you can pick out the common and/or defining elements.

[orest]

Another way:

Read the listings from TAXI and listen to the a la's.
I think you will get a better grasp of genres that way.
(especially if you want to submit to TAXI listings.. )

[Kolstad]

Genres are categories we use in an attempt to group musical qualities together. Therefore a genre is like a family of related elements. How and by whom, this categorizing is done is somewhat complex, and therefore we all struggle with this, I'm afraid (especially when doing a range of genres).

However, supers and music libraries use a variety of different genre categories. They need and use these categories for different purposes. Like major labels wants to know about the connection between genres and demographics in order to feed the markets. Music supers want to be able to find tracks fast in their library, so they need to have an appropriate category for their system.

This is why we see various ways of categorizing music in genres, and why it's useful to know whom you are categorizing for, and what their needs are.

So, it's really not simple, because genres doesn't really exist, it's something we do.

When being "market-smart", we categorize already when making the music, in order to fit into a particular system. Many listings tell about which categories of music they are looking for (a la's ect.), and by working that way as a producer, it can be easier to market the music once it's produced. Even if you are rejected for a listing, the music will be marketable elsewhere, due to the specifications you produced it under and now have.

Music that is just produced without explicit influences, or is not requested from anyone is the hardest music to find a home for, especially if it doesn't fit the general categories easily. Because you then have to rely on (somewhat unreliable) generalist ways to genre specify it.

If that's your situation, try to make it as simple as possible, and use a system from often used (popular) sources. It could be Spotify, Pandora, Allmusic.com or iTunes. Go to those sites and listen for groove (drums) and instrumentation, and make an approximation.

Sorry if it got longwinded. I'm trying to be helpful, and believe the best help comes from understanding what's at stake at a deep level. Not a pro either, just engaged in the matter

[WhiteFort]

Thank you, everyone! I'm getting the picture that this isn't going to be a simple matter, and it's really REALLY helpful to have such thoughtful and insightful suggestions. You guys are awesome!

Cheers,
Jeanine

[WhiteFort]

Yeah, I could tell he was snarking out pretty hard, there, but I could actually follow along with the reasoning--and by the time you get out to the sort of "end boxes" on a chain, each one really does have a unique sound that I could identify. Considering that I'd never been able to tell the differences between electronic music types before yesterday, I thought that was pretty damn cool! And I loved the phrase "goa turds..." my guys have played in Goa and they totally made some of that music. I mean, his description NAILED it, to a T. Cracked me up!

I read the little tutorial too, which I found VERY interesting, on a "Gee Whiz" level. He describes the history of electronic instrumentation back to the 1800s. He goes even further back than that but it's a stretch. But fascinating to see pictures of these room-sized electronic devices that were built more than 100 years ago--crazy stuff!

[AnthonyCeseri]

I think you can show the songs to a bunch of people and ask them what groups your songs sound like. Then you can call your genre, whatever the soundalike band is.

For example, if you showed 10 people your songs and 4 said it sounded like Pearl Jam and 6 said Alice in Chains, then you'd know you had grunge on your hands... 'naw mean?