Guitar Tone - Who would have ever imagined?

[mazz]

I agree that if you're going to play on the pro level you have to have pro gear, and I wouldn't have gotten the gig if I hadn't invested in the pro gear AND made a killer demo using that gear. But I think that relationships are more important than gear. You can always buy gear, but you can't buy relationships with the players in the business. If they ask about gear, I can hang with it, but once they hear the music, that's where the rubber meets the road. When you're talking about becoming a session player, producer, etc., then a true pro has a great attitude, gear that works every time, no excuses, shows up on time and maintains great relationships with clients. The gear is important, yes, but it's just one part of the equation.

I think we're saying the same thing from different directions.

How about those guitar picks?

Mazz

[wta]

LOL!!! Yes I think we're saying the same thing too. Relationships are that vital ingredient that without them, chops and gear and professionalism are just words in a "how to" book...

Ah yes, the pick... first one in my history was actually used in conjunction with a spade shovel way back when I was a boy, lemme tell ya alllll about it......................................

[cardell]

For years I was really "just" a vocalist and played part time rhythm guitar so my need for pro gear was nigh nil but over the years as I've expanded what I do so also my gear had to expand.

I'm exactly the same as you brother.

In my experience, the people who I am trying to sell my music to don't care at all what gear I use as long as the music sounds great and works musically for what they need at the time.

Yes, just like the audience (listeners).

...what I'm saying in the last part here is about professionalism and the reality that you've got to have both great chops AND gear.

Yes, this is also true. These points are NOT mutually exclusive. That's the paradox. The easiest example to see this with is singing: if you're gear is crap (you're voice) your vocal is crap.

Stuart

[wta]

that's very true Stu... I really should clearify better when I write stuff, its just there are so many angles to look at something and if I don't add enough info often I can come across like I haven't considered something so I have to go back and explain in more detail and look like a bone head in the process. Sharing can be dicey sometimes when it would be far easier just to not say anything!!! The bummer of text!
The gear a guy/gal uses to submit for libraries and the like, yup no one at any level is going to give a rat's patunia, all I really was trying to say is to go beyond that, which I expect is most peoples goals, it's going to require a major commitment to more than just music chops and gear is one thing that will need a TON of time to figure out what's best for your needs, genre, ect in what your budget will allow. What has helped in my career is getting a glimse as far down the gear road as possible and then be on the look out for good used equipment at a great price. I still feel I have a long way to go but I'm happy to be in the game, kickin' hiney and takin names!!!! So to speak...

[ernstinen]

Sorry but my modeling is nothing even close to something out of a box, at least I don't think it is. That said, I agree about the interaction argument. I like to use my amp when I'm trying to do something that I can't get through modeling, like feedback, and I like to play my amp! But the room, let me say this, its great if you are able to have a room set up for guitar, period. But the idea doesn't really work for me here at the house because the interior design of a room along with the idea of the primary use of a room for guitar is not something my wife and I easily agree on! It becomes too much hassle to change a room on a daily basis and pointless when the degree of modeling I can achieve is so very high.

Keith

Keith, I understand your point! But ever since I got married back in Kalamazoo years ago, my wife INSISTED that I got my own studio outside of the house. No wonder! I had a Fender Dual Showman that wouldn't break up until I turned it up to "11" --- We lived on a lake in a house, and when I did a rhythm track on the Dual Showman, my old neighbor lady almost called the police.

I don't deny the great sounds of digital sound sources for guitar. But, I believe there STILL is no way of emulating a tube preamp, a tube power amp, speakers and cabinets of your choice, the room you choose to build (or not build), and the microphones you use to capture the sound of the amp cabinet, first, and the room, secondly. --- That is exactly why I have built about 4 soundproof booths since I moved to Los Angeles, because I REVERE the recording process of amp and microphone. It's an art, which took me 15 years to learn. Anyone can negate my process, but it works for me, and I have signed many guitar masters to music libraries BECAUSE of the sound I get from from my method. I couldn't get this sound through a Silvertone guitar, a Crate amp, and a Radio Shack Microphone.

Ern

[wta]

Sorry but my modeling is nothing even close to something out of a box, at least I don't think it is. That said, I agree about the interaction argument. I like to use my amp when I'm trying to do something that I can't get through modeling, like feedback, and I like to play my amp! But the room, let me say this, its great if you are able to have a room set up for guitar, period. But the idea doesn't really work for me here at the house because the interior design of a room along with the idea of the primary use of a room for guitar is not something my wife and I easily agree on! It becomes too much hassle to change a room on a daily basis and pointless when the degree of modeling I can achieve is so very high.

Keith

Keith, I understand your point! But ever since I got married back in Kalamazoo years ago, my wife INSISTED that I got my own studio outside of the house. No wonder! I had a Fender Dual Showman that wouldn't break up until I turned it up to "11" --- We lived on a lake in a house, and when I did a rhythm track on the Dual Showman, my old neighbor lady almost called the police.

I don't deny the great sounds of digital sound sources for guitar. But, I believe there STILL is no way of emulating a tube preamp, a tube power amp, speakers and cabinets of your choice, the room you choose to build (or not build), and the microphones you use to capture the sound of the amp cabinet, first, and the room, secondly. --- That is exactly why I have built about 4 soundproof booths since I moved to Los Angeles, because I REVERE the recording process of amp and microphone. It's an art, which took me 15 years to learn. Anyone can negate my process, but it works for me, and I have signed many guitar masters to music libraries BECAUSE of the sound I get from from my method. I couldn't get this sound through a Silvertone guitar, a Crate amp, and a Radio Shack Microphone.

Ern

I could have said it that well...

no I couldn't...

YES I COULD!!!

no i couldn't...

YES I COULD!!!


nope... couldn't

I too build a iso booth seconds for vocals which is ALSO a vital key to great vocal takes but I'm gonna get myself in trouble AGAIN!!!

[cardell]

Yes, of course you're right Ern.
After all, the simulators are only convenient copies of the real thing.

But have you also noticed how engineers/producers eventually end up trying to make the sounds of the real and fake meet in the middle (I mean sound the same).

Stuart

BTW, I'd love to record in your studio one day.

[ernstinen]

But have you also noticed how engineers/producers eventually end up trying to make the sounds of the real and fake meet in the middle (I mean sound the same).

Well, I USED to record a Marshall in stereo with a Rockman. Pretty cool sound! The Marshall was on "11" in the booth, and the Rockman (solid state) was fully cranked on the 2nd channel. I had a Boss flanger on the Marshall, and if you walked into the booth it was so noisy you couldn't believe it! But with a 57 on the cab, it was sweet! I either had an A/B box between the two, or a Boss Stereo Chorus. For a loud rock song, you'd never hear the noise from the Marshall.

BTW, I'd love to record in your studio one day.

C'mon over! We've got a second bedroom, about 15 miles away from my studio!

Ern

[t4mh]

Ok, look, I'm not gonna tell you guys how to get your sound. What I do works for me and I'm sure what you do works for you. And really thats what matters the most to each one of us. Our sound is sort of who we are when it comes to guitar. Its it and thats that. When it comes to piles of gear, I've got some and I've had more. Like the two 36 channel live boards collecting dust in my attic right now that I no longer use. What I do with guitar modeling, its the very same equipment I've used live for quite some time. I'm just not playing live anymore and so I'm using the stuff to get a sound on a track. But when I did and I had my one small but very loud amp on stage, I would have guitar players come up to me after a gig and wanna know how I did that. "That" being going from Godsmack Soldanos to Rare Earth 66 Fender Deluxes one after another. Changing from a Beatles Vox to a Metallica Marshall in the blink of an eye. And its realistic. Everyone of them would have sworn I had about 15 amps behind the stage. It is THAT real. And I've proven it works for me. I don't really care if anyone likes or dislikes what I do. If someone doesn't wanna work with me because of "HOW" I do what I do then so be it. Next! I don't really want to say something bad about guitar sim software on a public forum. I have a bunch of em. None of them work me.

I'm just like you guys, I love guitars and amps! I can't afford a whole pile of em but you can't tell that from any of my tracks and any music supervisor would believe, just like the guys at gigs did, that I in fact did own all those amps. To me, thats all that matters.

BTW Ern, I would LOVE to have a separate studio! Not in the budget... So I have to deal with what I have to deal with. But hey, the commute up the stairs to my room is SO hard for me to deal with right?
You guys are great!
Keith

[mazz]

I'm just like you guys, I love guitars and amps! I can't afford a whole pile of em but you can't tell that from any of my tracks and any music supervisor would believe, just like the guys at gigs did, that I in fact did own all those amps. To me, thats all that matters.


AMEN!