Help I'm Confused

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JohnnyP
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Re: Help I'm Confused

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:43 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:19 pm
PDebik wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:15 am
For example in some listings you read "cohesive from beginning to end" or things like "vary only slightly" or "gradually changing" etc. - and you'll get a return with "needs a better developmental arc", "could need some more variations", "too repetitive" etc.
I would say generally you need to be changing things around every 4 bars ( in 4/4 ) and if there's no change in 8 bars you are probably in " treadmill " territory...where the listener feels like they are on an endless treadmill going in a loop.

The thing is if they want to loop a section for a show then they can just loop it themselves in their own edit bay. So what they really want is options.
PDebik wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:15 am
For example when you get a return that mentions that your cue needs a bigger ending, which makes absolutely no sense for cues. As tv producers are using a few seconds of cues, it simply does not matter whether that cue has a big ending or not.


Well it does matter quite a bit. When they edit your cue into a scene they need a way for it to transition into the next one. So if you have a decent build towards a definitive ending your cue can be much more useful to the editor. They often use that last build to signify to the viewer that one scene is ending and another is coming, especially in reality shows.

Sometimes they will just use the middle of the cue and then tack the ending bit on themselves when they need to get out of cue into the next scene.

A lot of reference tracks are just for the "vibe"...obviously songs can have a fairly repetitive backing track as they have a vocal on top to hold the listeners interest. So if you are building a cue from a reference song by an artist don't think that just because they've got 16 bars where nothing much changes that it's okay to do the same.

Take the feel/vibe..but make something that has that arc and a strong finish. Obviously this is not true of every style but a good rule of thumb especially for reality cues that are using reference tracks from Top 40 type songs.

Mark
Right there- what Mark just stated! And sometimes just the simplest addition or layer. It could be a shaker, tamb, new gtr panned to a diff side. It need not be drastic, just keep the momentum going forward and not “tread-milling”😉 ( nice one Mark)
John L Pearson
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cosmicdolphin
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Re: Help I'm Confused

Post by cosmicdolphin » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 pm

JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:43 pm

Right there- what Mark just stated! And sometimes just the simplest addition or layer. It could be a shaker, tamb, new gtr panned to a diff side. It need not be drastic, just keep the momentum going forward and not “tread-milling”😉 ( nice one Mark)
Absolutely. Another good trick is just transposing a part up an octave or doubling it with something an octave above. This can work well when trying to build up to the finish.

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Re: Help I'm Confused

Post by AlanHall » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:46 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:43 pm

Right there- what Mark just stated! And sometimes just the simplest addition or layer. It could be a shaker, tamb, new gtr panned to a diff side. It need not be drastic, just keep the momentum going forward and not “tread-milling”😉 ( nice one Mark)
Absolutely. Another good trick is just transposing a part up an octave or doubling it with something an octave above. This can work well when trying to build up to the finish.
And these are specific suggestions that make for an 'aha!' moment for us newbies. Composer's toolbox updated, check!
Much appreciated!

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Re: Help I'm Confused

Post by JohnnyP » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:55 pm

AlanHall wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:46 pm
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 pm
JohnnyP wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:43 pm

Right there- what Mark just stated! And sometimes just the simplest addition or layer. It could be a shaker, tamb, new gtr panned to a diff side. It need not be drastic, just keep the momentum going forward and not “tread-milling”😉 ( nice one Mark)
Absolutely. Another good trick is just transposing a part up an octave or doubling it with something an octave above. This can work well when trying to build up to the finish.
And these are specific suggestions that make for an 'aha!' moment for us newbies. Composer's toolbox updated, check!
Much appreciated!
Hi Alan,
Yep, Mark has got a ton of experience and you're right. These simple yet specific details are what help us get better. We can never stop learning coz the goal posts are always moving. It's the nature of the business and it's the nature of a successful composer to adapt. Best, John
John L Pearson
www.johnptunes.com

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