I need better sound

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ssrproductions
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I need better sound

Post by ssrproductions » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:47 am

i work with Reason 4.0, I have been told that the drums that i have been using just don't cut it. I am now desperate for a good authentic drum kit that works in conjuction with reason 4.0. What can you recommend that i use. I like to use sounds straight out of the box because i am not much of an engineer, so i need good quality drums right out the gate.

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Re: I need better sound

Post by mojobone » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:01 pm

Not sure if Reason supports VSTis, but maybe you could ReWire something like Addictive Drums into it? Otherwise, you'd have to build your drum tracks outside the program....or buy this?

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Re: I need better sound

Post by rnrmachine » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:12 pm

There are a number that sound pretty real out of the box BUT they often need to be tweaked to fit the genre and be realistic. They sound great out of the box but once you put them in a song most have a "sore thumb" appearance.

In this thread you can hear an example of some drums, Reason 2.0. http://forums.taxi.com/topic24501.html

The more popular drum softsynth that I am aware of is Superior Drummer 2.0. There are MANY though... just make sure they are newer so they are competing with the latest ones.... anti-machine gun properties of some kind is extremely important.

Ocean Way Drums: (don't buy the cheap version it has too many limitations. You need Silver at a minimum. The full version is $1500... Silver you'll need to look up)
Superior Drummer 2.0: (like I said... they sound great and have a number of genre oriented expansion packs making it extremely versatile.)
Steven Slate Drums (works GREAT for metal but you have to work your a+s off for the more raw modern sounds. They are very processed sounding but do sound great.)
Reason Drums 2.0: (I only know of them because of that thread... but they sound good to me)
BFD2: (is supposed to be really good.)

I feel like I am forgetting a big one yet.. so do NOT think of this as a complete list. It's only a "off the top off my head" list.

No samples will sound real though if not approached in a real manner... in other words if you program the drums like a drummer would play them it will sound a lot more real then just some simple straight up beat throughout the song. No different then having the most expensive, up to date violin sample... if you don't play that keyboard with nuances like a violinist then you are going to sound fake... You'll sound like a keyboard player playing a violin sample. A really good sample but a sample none the less.

Good Luck in whatever you choose,

Rob
Last edited by rnrmachine on Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I need better sound

Post by eeoo » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:49 pm

I think I posted this on another thread of yours but reason drums 2.0 sounds pretty damn good. Also drum tracks for Record looks pretty cool if you want to add Record to your arsenal. If you're primarily a Reason user I can't see how you'd go wrong getting Record to go along with it.

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Re: I need better sound

Post by mazz » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:24 pm

Part of making MIDI drums sound good is having a good MIDI performance to start with. I am a big believer in third part MIDI loops. I'm pretty sure you can import MIDI files into Reason, and there are some good MIDI loops out there from companies such as GrooveMonkee. Their loops are performed by drummers playing MIDI drum kits, and as a result, you end up with MIDI grooves that sound like a drummer played them, because a drummer did!!! You can always go in and do tweaking on the loops in MIDI, such as adding a crash on the downbeat, or modifying a fill to hit when you want it to etc. It's a huge time saver, IMO. I don't have any qualms or macho trips about having to create my own drum tracks, I'm more interested in getting pieces written that sound great and getting them to my publishers, hence I love the flexibility and great feel of excellent MIDI drum tracks. (Pop drum tracks in and of themselves are not rocket science, but knowing which ones to use and tastefully applying them is one of the things that separates the hobbyists from the pros.)

Of course, having the sounds and grooves is only half the process. Knowing which grooves to pick and how to put them together takes a knowledge of how a drummer constructs a part, where they put fills in, etc. That's the chops part that comes with years of experience and practice. Put your arranger hat on, close your eyes and imagine that drummer and what they would choose to play on your song.

Oh, and then there's the part about knowing how to mix the drums in the song and picking the appropriate room sound for the arrangement, etc., but that's a whole other conversation.

Basically my "it's not the gear, it's the ear" philosophy in this case is: great sounds alone don't make a great track. It's the mind and ears behind the track that makes it a great track.

It never ends!

You can do it!

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Re: I need better sound

Post by Len911 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:39 pm

I just got an email today from esoundz, Ocean Way drums are available for Reason.
http://www.esoundz.com/news1.php?nbr=5982

If you want the most realistic and best recorded and mixed, you can't beat them. There are no electronic drums, these are regular, classic vintage type kits.
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Re: I need better sound

Post by rnrmachine » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:52 pm

Careful with those kits those... they are part of the "lite" version that is missing the perks that add to realism... the perks that the full version has. It's not just missing kits like a lot of other Drum softsynths are when you buy the cheaper version. So be sure and check out all the versions. Missing extra kits is not a big deal, but missing bleed controls is. Just be sure you don't get yourself stuck into something that isn't realistic enough for the people who matter... the screeners and the people placing/licensing your music.

That is a good deal if you are poor though... IF you can afford silver or better at least then get that, imho... IF you buy OWDrums. You have bleed control in them better versions which you do not in the cheaper ones. I haven't read up lately on the differences SO if they changed you need to find that out for yourself.

I personally have kit 10 from them for free... I got it with Sonar as a perk.. free download. It sounds great but it has no extras that OWD has in the full versions that make it sound more realistic. So in the end it's a great sounding but obvious fake. I did try the OWD demo, which is the lite version and that was missing the perks as well. Like I said, the Demo is the lite version that you can expand on.. ie buy more kits but not perks.

Good Luck,

Rob
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Re: I need better sound

Post by Len911 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:46 pm

I have several of the dl kits and one multi kit. There is nothing in the stereo kits that are lacking in realism. The multi's have more flexibility as far as whether you want the snare to bleed in the kick and an on or off version. You can adjust each of the mics on the multi's and you are offered more outs, and have 6 presets instead of 3, so the multi's allow you more engineering if you will than the stereo kits, but the stereo kits are " pre-engineered" or premixed professionally by Steve Miller and Allen Sides. So the multi's I suppose also offer you a chance to screw up the mix if you will,lol! As far as the sound and realism though there is no difference. You can interchange all the kits also. I also bought the bonus kick drums they offered on esoundz at one time, so if you want to change out kicks or snares or cymbals you can.
They use to sell each kit individually, I believe there are 19, and you could buy the stereo for $39, and the multi for $59 per kit. I bought one multi and the rest stereo. I have listened for hours trying to choose between kits and narrow my choices, but they all sound real enough and felt I could have probably gotten by with just one kit. So yes for the poor man, they were great. For me it was like buying one channel of API for far less money than I could have bought an entire API console. I think for sales purposes though they discontinued that because it was probably hurting the dealerships selling the entire packages, of silver, gold and platinum.
For what you are looking for, as you said you are not wanting to do a lot of engineering or tweaking, and just want great, realistic, premixed drum sounds out of the gate, there is no doubt in my mind that this is what you are looking for.
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Re: I need better sound

Post by rnrmachine » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:39 am

Ok Len, I'll take your word for it.

In the full version of OWDrums there are knobs and you can control it like in superior drummer. You also have a ton of mics that you can control,, room mics, etc... I just wanted to warn him how poor I feel the cheap version is. BFD2, Superior Drummer 2 and SSD are all without ANY doubt better then the Cheap version... The "DL" version it is called. I decided to check it and refresh my memory since we're getting this much into it.

IF they made changes to make the kits, making them better, for reason then that is cool. I just can't stress enough, if you buy the "DL" deal from Ocean Way you will be disappointed. I have not used the versions for reason.. for obvious reasons... hehe pun intended. SO IF they have true realism in them than that is great.

BTW, I tried the BFD2 demo and that thing sounds awesome... the demo does suck though because you only have 4 velocity layers so on the realism aspect I would need to have all the extra layers before I can truly say if it is better then SD2 or SSD. Silver from OWD is $369 (cheapest I found it) and BFD2 is about $399. I saw BFD2 on Ebay for $299 :shock: . Superior Drummer is $299 (but recently had a deal for $149 which could be happening again in the future.) And SSDrums go for about $99 for the cheapest version.. the EX version without any limitations off the platinum. Just less kits.

Rob
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Re: I need better sound

Post by Len911 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:38 am

The drums and mics are the same in the "cheap" kit as you call it and the multi's. With the "cheap" kits you have to "settle" for some of the mics already premixed, I say settle because they are mixed by Steve Miller and Allen Sides. As far as the kits are concerned, they were assembled according to the tastes and what combos have worked best for the aforementioned's experience over their years of recording at ocean way studios. Allen Sides has a magnificent collection of vintage mics, and had no reason to settle on mics when recording these samples. I'm not really sure how you make vintage drums better, I can understand if you don't like their choices, but I think they are far from poor quality. These are the only drums I use, unless I need electronic, and I am far from disappointed, I got a free version of Superior drummer with a software program I bought, but have never used them.
Here is a link for all of the demos. In the "cheap" versions you get the dry, medium and ambient mixes, in the multi's you get dry, dry-med,medium,med-ambient, ambient, you get the picture, there's not that much difference. If you need more than stereo outs you can always record a separate track for each of the pieces to a kit. You still have panning,volume, velocity etc. in the "cheap" versions.
http://www.oceanwaydrums.net/audio2.php
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