Ideal amount of Songs

[matto]

Hi Dana,since you are not producing the music yourself, but using a demo service, I would actually join Taxi BEFORE spending all the money on those demos. I would do very rough guitar vocal or piano vocal demos, and use Taxi's custom critiquing service (and perhaps even other outside services) to really workshop your songs before spending the money on the elaborate demos.It has been my experience that most people write a bunch of songs they think are fantastic and commercially viable, spend a lot of time and/or money demoing those songs, and then when they join Taxi and submit their songs they realize the songs are not as fantastic or commercially viable as they thought. Thus all that money has more or less gone to waste.I had 5 "hit songs" ready when I joined Taxi 10 years ago, and after pitching them a few times I realized they were NOT hit songs and soon I stopped pitching them. Lucky for me I do my own production, but I had hired singers and so all the money I spent on them was wasted. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who had this experience... On the surface, it may seem to make more sense to wait until you have a number of songs "ready" before joining...but if you use a pro demo service you probably spend more money on a single demo than what a one year Taxi membership would cost, so I personally think it's ultimately more cost effective to join in the beginning and take full advantage of all Taxi has to offer as you shape your songs into the ultimate killer hits they have to be to make an impression in Nashville.Hope this helps.matto

[hummingbird]

Quote:Hi Dana,since you are not producing the music yourself, but using a demo service, I would actually join Taxi BEFORE spending all the money on those demos. I would do very rough guitar vocal or piano vocal demos, and use Taxi's custom critiquing service (and perhaps even other outside services) to really workshop your songs before spending the money on the elaborate demos.It has been my experience that most people write a bunch of songs they think are fantastic and commercially viable, spend a lot of time and/or money demoing those songs, and then when they join Taxi and submit their songs they realize the songs are not as fantastic or commercially viable as they thought. Thus all that money has more or less gone to waste.I had 5 "hit songs" ready when I joined Taxi 10 years ago, and after pitching them a few times I realized they were NOT hit songs and soon I stopped pitching them. Lucky for me I do my own production, but I had hired singers and so all the money I spent on them was wasted. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who had this experience... On the surface, it may seem to make more sense to wait until you have a number of songs "ready" before joining...but if you use a pro demo service you probably spend more money on a single demo than what a one year Taxi membership would cost, so I personally think it's ultimately more cost effective to join in the beginning and take full advantage of all Taxi has to offer as you shape your songs into the ultimate killer hits they have to be to make an impression in Nashville.Hope this helps.mattoExcellent advice

[Casey H]

There has been some excellent advice on this thread. A very important point made is that it is not only how many songs you DO have but how many can you produce on relatively short notice. It you can write really good songs and create master quality demos on demand, that makes a big difference.Since you use pro demos services, as Matto mentioned, be careful spending a lot of money on demos before you get at least some professional feedback. One option is to send 1-2 songs for pro review by John Braheny at www.johnbraheny.com (I think it is $25 per critique). That will give you a good idea of how your writing stands up before spending too much money.A couple of pointers regarding pro-demos services... Make sure you always get a signed work-for-hire release from the studio and/or musicians that states you own all rights to the master recordings 100% free and clear. Also, request the backing track without vocals which is very useful when pitching your songs for film/TV. You should try to get all the studio session files (e.g. pro-tools or other similar) if possible. Check as to how long they keep all your tracks on file. You want to make sure that if you make lyric changes later you will be able to have the vocals re-done.If you want to post songs here for some opinions (link to the song + lyrics), you can get some valuable input. Just don't jump based on any one opinion from anyone. Look for patterns whereby multiple experienced people say similar things.And good luck! Casey

[dayson1]

Hello again:))Thanks again to you all for you help:)))Hi Vicki, Thanks again for the suggestion, yes I know Country has a very high bar to shoot for...I have been writing and work on my craft for some years and I belong to website SongJourney where we got constant feedback from a coulple of publishers.I am now a member of SongU, and am taking advantage of their critiques services as well:)))I am not sure who Nomi, is but I will dig around and see if I can get some imput from Him/her Thanks again!Hi gitarrero:)Thanks for chiming in here, My goals are to write for Up and coming Artists and as well as new ones. I would like to land a publishing deal. Since I don't produce are anything like that, I am not really looking at T.V. listing for the moment. Looking to find a reputable publisher who can shop my material. I am looking manly at Commercial Country/Pop markets.I will try to post something soon for you all to hear if you would like:))))Hi Matto:)WOW 10 yrs??? That's incredible!! what a testament!!!!Excellent advice here! Really thorough and probably the best way to look at. Makes a lot of sense. When I joined taxi years ago, I was a complete novice! I went through that same scenario:)))I think it must be a right of passage lol...So much smart and wonderful advice given here, I am glad I asked this question, maybe this will help others also:)) I really appreciate you taking the time to be so thorough on this:)-Dana hurowitzYes more great advice! I take a lot more time and a lot more re-writes to make sure that I have everything tight before deciding to spend money on a professional demo.Matto, is right, I am sure I could have joined taxi at close to the same price that I have spent on a full demo...Because it takes to long to get some of the demos back, it becomes a little frustrationg lol.. Sometimes they don't come back they way you imagine them l... guess that's the price you pay for not being a performer-producer..One question, that I had about Demo studios though-I didn't think you could use the track they produced for you for t.v. listings, am I wrong? The Demo studio I use supply the instrumental tracks, but I am not sure they mean for them to be used in that way?I heard that it would be hard to get players at demo services to sign work for hires? I heard some are really reluctant and just won't...Any idea of how that works?Again, I really appreciate all this input and look forward to getting to know you all better:) Looking forward to sharing ideas and help where I can here! Thanks again to you all:)-Dana

[Casey H]

Quote: Since I don't produce are anything like that, I am not really looking at T.V. listing for the moment. Looking to find a reputable publisher who can shop my material. I am looking manly at Commercial Country/Pop markets....Because it takes to long to get some of the demos back, it becomes a little frustrationg lol.. Sometimes they don't come back they way you imagine them l... guess that's the price you pay for not being a performer-producer...One question, that I had about Demo studios though-I didn't think you could use the track they produced for you for t.v. listings, am I wrong? The Demo studio I use supply the instrumental tracks, but I am not sure they mean for them to be used in that way?I heard that it would be hard to get players at demo services to sign work for hires? I heard some are really reluctant and just won't...Any idea of how that works?DanaGood demo services should be willing to have work-for-hire's signed. I wouldn't use anyone who is unwilling. The reason for the instrumental tracks is: In film/TV applications sometimes they like to edit back-and-forth between the vocal and non-vocal version of a song... e.g. have the instrumental playing and then at the right time bring in the chorus with the vocal. You are paying for these works and they should be yours. BTW, I have made placements whereby ONLY the instrumental track was used.I am like you, a non-performer, and use someone to do my demos. I get a work-for-hire with every song. It is hard sometimes because no one else can really hear how you hear it in your head. But very often, someone else's interpretation is even better. That has been the case for me. It takes a while to "get used" to the demo. I hate everything the first time I hear it because I have to clear out my brain from other thoughts. Many things I hated at first because they were "different", are my favorites now -and- have been well received in pitching. Another person you might want to talk to is our own "Chits"- her name here is JChitty. She writes excellent country songs and uses a top notch professional demo service.This, IMHO, is VERY important. Even if you are not thinking for film/TV right now with your goal being pitching for artists, DO NOT paint yourself into a corner spending money on demos that cannot be pitched for film/TV. Work-for-hire" releases are required for film/TV pitches. As it has been noted, pitching songs for country artists is one of the toughest nuts to crack. You may want to, now or later on, pitch for film/TV. The overwhelming majority of opportunities for new (and not-so-new) songwriters/artists are there. Read the success stories from TAXI members.Good luck! Casey

[nomiyah]

Quote:I am not sure who Nomi, is but I will dig around and see if I can get some imput from Him/her Thanks again!Someone mention my name?Funny thing is, I just returned from my first gigs in Nashville and now I'm the resident expert... Actually, I haven't written much country, I just love shooting for high bar songwriting.A great example of the high bar is the current number 1 hit: Moments. You can hear it on myspace/davebergmusic. It is an extremely well-written song.Good idea to ask questions in places like the Taxi forum, Dana. The more we know about the music biz the further we can go.Nomi

[dayson1]

Hi guys, I am not sure how to use the quote button yet lol...Casey, Thanks for the advice again, I will definitely keep all this in mind. I have asked about a work for hire agreement with the studio that I have used, but was told that the singers would not sign them because that leaves them open to having their voices and likeness used in ways they don't want them to. I know this sounds stupid, but do you have some other agreement worked out with them when the song is placed for T.V.? Like are they entitled to some kind of performance royalties? I know with a work for hire they signed that all away? Am I missing something here?I know when singers sign Work for Hire agreements, you can release that demo for sale or pretty much anything that you want to do with it. I thought most would not put themselves in that situation.Thanks again, still have a lot to learn when it comes to this particular matter:)) I do appreciate the help really!-Dana

[dayson1]

Hi Nomi:))Thanks for chiming in here, yes I love that song "Moments" an excellent write! Very powerful and moving song! I will definitely be asking a lot more questions in the forum:)) You guys are very generous with you time and suggestions, it's great meeting you all here-Dana

[Casey H]

Quote:Hi guys, I am not sure how to use the quote button yet lol...Casey, Thanks for the advice again, I will definitely keep all this in mind. I have asked about a work for hire agreement with the studio that I have used, but was told that the singers would not sign them because that leaves them open to having their voices and likeness used in ways they don't want them to. I know this sounds stupid, but do you have some other agreement worked out with them when the song is placed for T.V.? Like are they entitled to some kind of performance royalties? I know with a work for hire they signed that all away? Am I missing something here?I know when singers sign Work for Hire agreements, you can release that demo for sale or pretty much anything that you want to do with it. I thought most would not put themselves in that situation.Thanks again, still have a lot to learn when it comes to this particular matter:)) I do appreciate the help really!-DanaDanaIn the past, I have used clauses in the work-for-hire that may help. One says [paraphrasing] that you can use the track in any way where it is synchronized in timed relation to visual such as film, TV, video games, advertising, DVD, etc. but not as a pure audio CD release. That way you can use it for film/TV, but you couldn't release a CD with that singer's work. You need to get the proper wording from an entertainment attorney. The other clause simply says you will not use the singer's name or likeness without their written permission (or not at all), allowing them to stay completely anonymous. Sometimes, due to their own careers, they do not want to be identified with these demos.I used to have a clause that I would pay a percentage of any master/sync fee received to the musicians. I was told years ago that the going rate was 3% per musician. However, with today's master/sync fees being low, often $500, 3% seems too trivial. It's up to you if you want to offer a percentage of any master/sync fees. Your agreement should be very clear that absolutely no other fees except the fee paid for the demo and this percentage if you include it will be paid.If these additional clauses do not work as far as getting signatures, you may want to talk to other demo studios.Good luck! Casey

[Casey H]

Just an addition to my last post...I have no experience with Nashville demo services since I don't do country music. So, I am not up-to-date with regard to the reluctance of Nashville demo musicians to sign work-for-hires. I've worked with other services, outside of Nashville, and have had no real problems, especially with those clauses I mentioned. Still, I think non-performers should shop around and try to find services that produce high quality demos and are willing to sign these releases. With typical demo costs being in the $500-$800 range, it's a shame to have limited use for the demos. Artist placements are one in many, many thousands and while film/TV isn't necessarily a cake walk, the opportunities are much greater. Casey