Loading multiple instances in Logic

with industry Pro, Nick Batzdorf

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

slideboardouts
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by slideboardouts » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:01 pm

So I got this plug in recently that has the absolute best hip hop drum sounds I've ever heard from any plug in or hardware work station/sampler. It has some interesting FX and instruments as well. I was pretty excited about it because there really isn't anything out there that is geared specifically toward hip hop and R&B. You kinda have to put things together from multiple plug ins and loops... and even then I find that I have to do a lot of mixing gimmicks, especially with the kicks.

There is one HUGE problem with this plug-in... it doesn't support multiple instances. You can only load up one instance at a time. You can send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, but by doing that you are essentially running a mini sequencer inside of a real sequencer. The plug in is kinda designed like a virtual MPC, which is cool, but forcing you to use it as your sequencer instead of your DAW is ridiculous.

I'm wondering if anybody here knows a workaround for this. I found a workaround for the VST version in Ableton on a PC where you just duplicate the .dll file, rename it, and then drag and drop the .dll files onto your tracks. I posted this question in a Logic help forum and was told to duplicate the component file in the plug-in folder, but that didn't work. I still can't load a second instance, and I can't figure out a way to directly open up the duplicate component file in Logic.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Steve

User avatar
mazz
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:51 am
Gender: Male
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by mazz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:24 pm

Why do you need multiple instances? Does this have separate outputs? Can't you run the separate outputs (if it has them) to different tracks?

Another option would be to run it outside of Logic in something like Plogue Bidule via Rewire. I'm not sure if Rewire is 64 bit yet, but I use Bidule all the time and it works great to host plugins (still 32 bit at my place). You might even be able to have multiple instances of Bidule open and Rewire them back into Logic.

Yet another slightly more expensive option would be to run it in Vienna Ensemble Pro outside of Logic. You could probably have several versions of VEP open and send them back to Logic via it's own routing scheme.
Evocative Music For Media

imagine if John Williams and Trent Reznor met at Bernard Hermann's for lunch and Brian Eno was the head chef!
http://www.johnmazzei.com
http://www.taxi.com/johnmazzei

it's not the gear, it's the ear!

slideboardouts
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by slideboardouts » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:15 pm

Thanks Mazz. I'll give those a shot. The re-wire option seems particularly interesting.
mazz wrote:Why do you need multiple instances? Does this have separate outputs? Can't you run the separate outputs (if it has them) to different tracks?
I want to run multiple instances for a couple of reasons. One is that I would like to be able to use my stock Logic and third party plug-ins/FX on the drums and instruments in this particular plug-in. If, for example, I want to use another plug-in (like a waves compressor or Logic's Space Designer reverb plug) on the snare drum, I can't do that without affecting all of the other drum sounds coming from this particular plug-in.

I can run up to 16 different midi channels out of this plug-in to separate tracks. So in that way it kinda has multiple outputs but not really. I can have a separate track for the kick, snare, high hats, etc... But any effect that I apply to one of those tracks will automatically apply to ALL of the tracks. I can't even do basic panning and volume adjustments. So really, it only has one output it seems and all I can do is record on separate tracks for midi editing purposes.

The other reason I want to run multiple instances is that this plug-in has some pretty useful instrument sounds. Not mind blowing or anything, but for hip hop they are right in the pocket. But since I can't run more than one instance at a time, I have to make a choice... do I want to use the drum sounds, OR do I want to use one of the instruments? I can't do both, which is pretty lame IMO.

I suppose I can always record one track, bounce it out as an audio track, drop the wave file into Logic, and then load up a different sound. But that is pretty cumbersome and kinda reminds me of the "good ol' days" of sequencing on an MPC. But I guess that was kinda what these guys were going for with this plug-in. "Get out of the way future, its time for an extremely inconvenient blast from the past!"

-Steve

User avatar
mazz
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:51 am
Gender: Male
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by mazz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:13 pm

You track everything as audio anyway, don't you? It might take a little extra time, but it affords you the capability to revisit sessions even if your DAW or plugins become obsolete due to OS updates, computer upgrades, etc. A wav or aiff file is still a pretty common denominator in the audio world. Not so much with small plugin developers! They could be gone tomorrow! How will you restore that session from 5 years ago if the client all of a sudden wants an alt mix in a hurry for that big film project?!!

Just saying!

:mrgreen:

Good luck!

Mazz
Evocative Music For Media

imagine if John Williams and Trent Reznor met at Bernard Hermann's for lunch and Brian Eno was the head chef!
http://www.johnmazzei.com
http://www.taxi.com/johnmazzei

it's not the gear, it's the ear!

slideboardouts
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by slideboardouts » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:21 pm

mazz wrote: They could be gone tomorrow! How will you restore that session from 5 years ago if the client all of a sudden wants an alt mix in a hurry for that big film project?!!

Just saying!

:mrgreen:

Good luck!

Mazz
This exact thought has crossed my mind actually. Wave files it is! :lol:

Its too bad really because this company could fill a niche and dominate the market because there really isn't anything out there for hip hop like this plug-in. It was love at first listen for me... until I tried to open up a second instance. Then it broke my heart :(

-Steve

User avatar
mazz
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:51 am
Gender: Male
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by mazz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:36 pm

OK, what is this mysterious piece of gear?
Evocative Music For Media

imagine if John Williams and Trent Reznor met at Bernard Hermann's for lunch and Brian Eno was the head chef!
http://www.johnmazzei.com
http://www.taxi.com/johnmazzei

it's not the gear, it's the ear!

slideboardouts
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by slideboardouts » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:33 pm

mazz wrote:OK, what is this mysterious piece of gear?
Its called "Beat Thang Virtual" by Beat Kangz. Yeah, pretty much the cheesiest name ever. And as a plug-in I feel its kind of half baked... not only because of the multiple instance thing but also its just not terribly user friendly. But the drum sounds are absolutely top notch for main stream hip hop. $119 for the "full" version, $49 for the "solo" version. The main difference between the two is that the solo version doesn't work as a plug in and it has fewer sounds than the full version. Of course, the "full" version doesn't work too well as a plug-in either :roll:

Here is a link: http://www.beatthang.com/products/beat- ... rtual.html

They don't really have much in the way of a demo, other than 2 kits playable from your keyboard (literally, your QWERTY keyboard... not your midi controller) towards about a quarter of the way down on this page: http://www.btvsolo.com/

The name is kinda cheesy, their website is an un-intuitive piece of crap, the plug-in doesn't support multiple instances despite the fact that we are living in the year 2012, and they seem to be more interested in selling an obsolete piece of hardware to go with the sounds for $999 than making a decent plug-in... but my god the drum sounds are glorious. Especially the kicks. Even if I just use this thing for kick drums I'm sure I'll get my money's worth out of it.

However, as good as the drum sounds are, I'm hesitant to recommend it to anybody until Beat Kangz gets their act together a little bit better. It took me 3 tries to order it because their shopping cart was malfunctioning, and apparently they had no idea it wasn't working until I notified them about it. You would think that after a while of having ZERO sales somebody would think that *maybe* something was up, but apparently that's not how they roll over at Beat Kangz. Also, it took 3 emails to customer support over the course of about a week to get an answer from them about ordering their product. I've never had such a hard time trying to give somebody $120. After they finally responded, they were pretty quick with responses after that and even gave me a free expansion pack for my troubles. Which was very nice of them. So they are trying, but they aren't quite there yet.

-Steve

User avatar
gabgar
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by gabgar » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:27 pm

slideboardouts wrote:So I got this plug in recently that has the absolute best hip hop drum sounds I've ever heard from any plug in or hardware work station/sampler. It has some interesting FX and instruments as well. I was pretty excited about it because there really isn't anything out there that is geared specifically toward hip hop and R&B. You kinda have to put things together from multiple plug ins and loops... and even then I find that I have to do a lot of mixing gimmicks, especially with the kicks.

There is one HUGE problem with this plug-in... it doesn't support multiple instances. You can only load up one instance at a time. You can send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, but by doing that you are essentially running a mini sequencer inside of a real sequencer. The plug in is kinda designed like a virtual MPC, which is cool, but forcing you to use it as your sequencer instead of your DAW is ridiculous.

I'm wondering if anybody here knows a workaround for this. I found a workaround for the VST version in Ableton on a PC where you just duplicate the .dll file, rename it, and then drag and drop the .dll files onto your tracks. I posted this question in a Logic help forum and was told to duplicate the component file in the plug-in folder, but that didn't work. I still can't load a second instance, and I can't figure out a way to directly open up the duplicate component file in Logic.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
-Steve
Did you try this?
http://www.learnbeatthang.com/beat-than ... ple-logic/

slideboardouts
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 588
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:30 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by slideboardouts » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:47 pm

That video just shows you how to send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, which is completely different from being able to open up multiple instances. The plug-in literally does not allow for multiple instances, so if you want to open up multiple instances it will have to be a work around that probably involves messing with the component files in the AU folder. Thats assuming its even possible in Logic. There is a way to do it in Ableton, but I can't figure out how to do it in Logic.

-Steve

User avatar
gabgar
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:50 am
Gender: Male
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: Loading multiple instances in Logic

Post by gabgar » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:50 pm

slideboardouts wrote:
That video just shows you how to send multiple midi channels out of the plug-in, which is completely different from being able to open up multiple instances. The plug-in literally does not allow for multiple instances, so if you want to open up multiple instances it will have to be a work around that probably involves messing with the component files in the AU folder. Thats assuming its even possible in Logic. There is a way to do it in Ableton, but I can't figure out how to do it in Logic.

-Steve
So you did what he mentioned in the video to do "new with next midi channel", correct?
If so do this instead, create a track as "new" then create a second track as "new" and don't bother changing the MIDI channel, then on each track load Beat Thang. This should get what you're looking for.
I notice it's just a stereo output, not a multi output.

I don't have BeatThing but I notice how you can specify seperate MIDI channels coming in so it looks like it's a Multi-Timbral instrument.
So you can specify creating that instrument as a Multi-Trimbal in Logic as well.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests