Mixing Insight

[ggalen]

WodinLord,Oh, no problem at all. I was smiling when I wrote it, too.Hard to convey in posts, though, isn't it? It's just such a revelation to me that a specific instrument doesn't need to sound "normal and full" in a mix for the entire mix to work beautifully.

[ernstinen]

Yea, in a MIX all the instrumental frequencies need to mesh as a whole so that one instrument isn't "stepping" on another, i.e. the bass guitar and the bass drum.That said, it still is best to record each individual track to sound as good as possible. For instance, on an electric guitar part if you have an open-back combo you can close mic the front of the speaker, mic the "back" of the speaker (reversing the phase), AND (it you want) add an ambient room mic. It's never bad to make each track as BIG as possible. Then you can EQ the individual tracks during the mix so that they don't "step" on one another.Another thing I used to do when I started recording acoustic guitar is always roll off the bass, because it worked better in the mix for a more complex "band" recording. But I made the mistake of doing the same thing with a solo acoustic guitar/vocal recording. In that situation, the guitar sounded thin and lifeless, since there was no bass guitar to fill up the bottom end. I didn't realize my mistake until it was too late! It's better to cut frequencies of a recorded track during mixing than to try and make the track sound "full" after the fact. If it's not recorded right in the first place, it's very hard to make something sound full and rich if it was never recorded well to start with.My 2 pesos! Ern

[devin]

Great thread you've started here Glenn!I'm waaay behind everyone else...I only built my little room in the basement 2 years ago. And I was VERY lucky to read a posting before I started that said "you'll spend over half of your time mixing & mastering...so make sure your control room is as comfortable as possible". I almost divided my space into a big tracking room, and a tiny mixing room before that posting. I averted that mistake, and I just built one room to do both jobs and learn in.One tip that very recently came my way, was for eq'ing acoustic guitar. A friend sent me a file with a great performance and melody...but the capture was a little off...lots of sound-hole boom, etc. To tame it, I knew I'd have to cut the eq somewhere. At this point, another friend told me "solo the guitar, set a narrow EQ band, and BOOST it all the way. Then slowly sweep it from treble to bass until you find the part that sounds terrible. At that point, widen and narrow the band until you know you're bringing up the worst parts. Lastly, drop the gain down below zero until it sounds balanced."This method is really fast for zeroing in on a troublesome frequency...boost it first so it's easier to find. I'm sure this is less of a problem with people that have access to better gear to play on, and have more experience with mic position...but it's helped me out a couple times now in the last week alone.I'm also coming up to speed on playing better myself...with so many ideas, it would be helpful to just "git er done" in the studio without arranging a month's worth of visits.Besides, if it's my guitar solo, I can convince myself to narrow the EQ of the track easier than I can a collaborator! In this way Glenn, you're miles ahead of me LOL

[Mark Kaufman]

I've been aware of this concept for awhile--carving out a place in the EQ--but it's one thing to grasp and another thing to DO it. But it is amazing how nice things can blend when you make them sound "wrong".It's a lot like drawing...tell someone to draw a table and they'll likely have all the legs lined up horizontally along the bottom. But LOOK at a table, and you notice the bottoms of those lined-up legs actually appear to make sort of a zig-zag pattern... It's counter-intuitive making things look, and sound, correct. Especially when, like Glenn, we know what those solo instruments "should" sound like.A very cool concept. Sure hope I truly "get it" someday...

[allends]

May 8, 2008, 1:38pm, ggalen wrote:...I was amazed when a little Sound Canvas pad worked great in a mix, and when I soloed it, I could hear it was...well, you know, not all that great sounding. It was no Kurzweil sound, that's for sure.But in the MIX...perfect....I'm wishin' I still had that organ patch from my old SoundBlaster card. I have a use for it dang it! -Allen

[wodinlord]

I am not claiming to be the end all repository of audio knowledge, but I have done nothing else my entire adult life and I am getting on up there now. There are no rules, just general guidelines and all of those can argued about. I can only pass on what works for me and am glad to. In a nutshell, I EQ each track in up to 4 places low 60 -200 hz - lo mid 250 - 800 upper mids 1k - 4.5 or so and highs 6k and up. (though, generally, only young women can really hear above 12 k) I know those aren't totally continuous ranges but anyway...Anyway, I try to give each track its own place in each of those areas. I am going to example guitar/bass/drum mixing but it applies to all. I make sure that the kick and bass each have their own lo freq and attack freq. I usually give the kick 80HZ and the bass 100-129. Sometimes I flip that, depending on overall sounds and genre. I, personally cut some lo mids on almost everything centered around 300-400 but especially bass and drums. Then give each an attack mid EQ at different places 1-2.5 for the bass and 2 - 4 for kick click. Gosh, this hard to put into written words. Then when I bring in guitars, I scoop again lo mids 4 - 600 and give them an upper mid eq above the bass mid, say 2 - 4.5. I use broad Q's on gtr mids. May roll off the low where the bass and kick are boosted. Ok same with the Vocal except, I do less lo mid scoop usually. Give it upper mid above or between the gtr mid and some 6.5 - 8 k for sibilance and presence. Obviously, exactly where you EQ is entirely dependent on your own ears. That will vary greatly. The trick is to use the EQ to make each instrument fit in the track as you bring it in, Then of course you will probably have to tweak what you did first and go back and forth a bit until it all gels.Anyway, that is a way too long, very brief explanation of how I work to achieve "frequency layering" None of the above is absolute and I am sure there are as many opinions as there are mixers about how to do this. I don't all of the above the same way every time either. These are just very broad generalizations that you have to try on your own and find what gives you the sound you want to hear. I do rock mixes that I want to jump out of the speakers and grab you by the throat. Someone else will want smooth silky mixes that sit back in the speakers. Both are fine ways of doing it. But, I truly believe the general concept applies either way. A good mix in any genre has everything louder than everything else. LOL because each element has its own space and fits in with everything else. Achieving depth of field separation will have to wait.One more tiny tidbit. Although, I am a loud rocker, I mix a lot at very low volume. Volume differences are more apparent at low volume, when it is loud, differences are compressed. I won't go into to ear dynamics and psychoacoustics. When doing final checking, I turn it down just above where the volume cuts off. If I can still hear everything well at very low volume, its probably a pretty good mix. A lot of mixes I hear posted on Taxi have vocals especially that would be obviously be way loud if listened to at low volume. And its easier on your ears.Take all of the above with a grain of salt and see what works for you.Sorry, I can run on, but its complicated.Whew!Wodinlord

[ernstinen]

May 8, 2008, 12:47pm, bigbluebarry wrote:Are there any "rules", or "guidelines" that you guys have for mixing that you wouldn't mind to share?Well, BigBlue --- That's quite a complex subject! I guess one thing that someone told me once early on in my mixing "career" is so basic it may sound silly, but it DOES make sense:CAN YOU HEAR EACH PART IN THE MIX CLEARLY?Of course, you want some things in the mix louder than others, like the lead vocal, or a solo instrument. But if there's a track that you CAN'T hear, especially listening at a low volume (which is a good idea, BTW), it either needs to be turned up or something else needs to be turned down.Speaking of turning things DOWN, that's one thing mixers with little experience (either in the studio or live) forget about. You can't always turn things up! You'll have your meters ON FIRE if you keep doing that. More later ----Ern

[mazz]

One thing I'm finding about mixing orchestral music is that it can be a different animal than mixing pop music. I'm not talking about bombastic trailer electro-orchestral stuff but strictly orchestral music.I've been studying a lot of classical orchestral scores lately (Mahler, Mozart, Beethoven, Debussy, etc.) and there are lots of textural things done inside the orchestra that aren't meant to be "heard" as discrete parts but they add up to a certain texture that is supporting a melody. If one were to mock up one of these scores with samples and try to mix it with a "pop" ear and aesthetic, it would be a mess. Of course, these are the best composers ever so they know how to write this stuff to work and not be mud, add to that a conductor that is "mixing" the orchestra while they're playing and it's a different animal but good food for thought, IMO.We could probably do a whole other long thread on mixing orchestral mockups. Ern would probably get carpal tunnel sharing all his knowledge on this, though! Cheers!MazzPS: A plug for Nick's magazine, Virtual Instruments. They have a MIDI mockup interview with a working composer every issue and it's pretty darn instructive. More good info!

[frodo]

May 8, 2008, 2:18pm, wodinlord wrote: I mix a lot at very low volume- Totally agree.It's very much easier to get something to sound good while listening at a low volume.And, - before anyone asks what that 'low' is exactly, - I'd say down to about 50-52 db, C weighted slow response, although 63-65 feels very comfortable also.And never never over 85... - until next timefrodo

[wodinlord]

May 8, 2008, 2:36pm, frodo wrote:May 8, 2008, 2:18pm, wodinlord wrote: I mix a lot at very low volumeAnd never never over 85... Well, I must admit that when the mix is done and it's time to enjoy it - I will Shatter that 85 db limit. LOL For short periods of course. Wodinlord