Mixing Insight

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 9:10am, devin wrote:Some folks can attend a formal school and really soak it up...others prefer to be the mad scientist in the basement re-discovering it all for themselves. (I'm closer to the basement type).Ya know, The Beatles were more the "mad scientist" types themselves. They viewed recording as an art. But the engineers at EMI actually WERE scientists! They were so trained and indoctrinated in electrical engineering, they LITERALLY wore white lab jackets in the studio. Seriously! There was ONE way to record, and if they didn't follow the scientific protocol, they got written up and chastised. --- So the Beatles didn't buy the restrictions. They would say "What would it sound like if you cranked the treble on the guitar track all the way up?" The engineers would reply "No, we can't do that. It's not done that way." Beatles: "Why not? Just TRY it!" And the fight would go on and on until the Beatles had some leverage to FORCE some changes.Another thing they fought over was the depth of the bass in the mix. They'd say "We DEMAND to know why the bass on the Motown records sounds so much better and louder than on OUR records." The engineers would give the rote answer that the stylus would jump out of the vinyl grooves. "Then why doesn't it jump out of the Motown records' grooves, huh?" "Uh, well, we were trained not to do it like that."Then Paul switched to a Rickenbacker bass, and they came up with the idea of using a 15" bass speaker as a microphone, rewiring it, and miking the bass cabinet with it. Voila! Deep, rich bass.So, IMHO, the FUN of the art of recording is in the experimenting. You can't get that out of a book.Ern

[davekershaw]

May 9, 2008, 10:36am, ernstinen wrote:So, IMHO, the FUN of the art of recording is in the experimenting. You can't get that out of a book.Ern Yes Ern, wouldn't it have been great to sit in on a Beatles recording session, especially around '66 - '69.No-one could believe what they were doing.I heard David Crosby the other night saying they would bring something like Paperback Writer out, and he just felt like giving in!A funny thing I remember hearing was that during the recording of "I Want You (she's so heavy)", at the point where John Lennon really lets rip and screams, you can hear voices right after the scream. Someone's theory was that Lennon's voice had gone way into the red, and the voice was an engineer complaining! Can you imagine anyone doing that to John Lennon!!

[allends]

May 9, 2008, 10:16am, ernstinen wrote:Here's a USB version that you push if your mix sounds like crap:Ern,You're simply the BEST with these goofy pictures! Thanks,Allen

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 11:13am, davekershaw wrote:I heard David Crosby the other night saying they would bring something like Paperback Writer out, and he just felt like giving in!Ha! "Paperback Writer" was the FIRST song that they recorded after their tirade about the bass sound. I believe that's also the first song Paul used a Rick bass on, too.BTW, if you're a David Crosby fan, check out his first solo record called "If I Could Only Remember My Name." It's fantastic! Lots of his West Coast buddies play on it, but it's pure Crosby with his great vocals. --- The bass sound on that recording is really cool. I think it was the Airplane's bass player --- can't think of his name offhand. Lots of "thunk" so the notes stand out, but lots of bottom end, too. Maybe an Alembic or some hi-end bass those guys were starting to use back then.Ern

[Mark Kaufman]

Mixing is really maddening....quite the art. As I take in all this good advice, it strikes me interesting that for all the money spent on excellent, state of the art monitors, it still comes down to how it sounds in the other room, or through crappy speakers, or through a boombox.One producer I know loves to mix with a combo of Yamaha NS-10s and AKG141 phones. He says they produce a very flat, dull response...but when you get your mix sounding good through them, they sound amazing everywhere else. He says he came to this process after listening to many fabulous mixes in recording studios with sparkling sounds through world-class speakers...only to find they sounded like doodoo in his car.

[liamkelly]

May 9, 2008, 1:01pm, lyle wrote:Mixing is really maddening....quite the art. As I take in all this good advice, it strikes me interesting that for all the money spent on excellent, state of the art monitors, it still comes down to how it sounds in the other room, or through crappy speakers, or through a boombox.

[liamkelly]

May 9, 2008, 1:14pm, lyle wrote:May 9, 2008, 1:06pm, devin wrote:Mark, I've got an extra one here you can have. I ordered mine from Music 123, but they are only sold in pairs. What's your address?Pairs, eh? Can't fool me--those are Stereo Buttons. Nice try, pal.ROTFLMAO Very good, Mark.

[hummingbird]

May 9, 2008, 1:22pm, milfus wrote:well anyone can make music sound good on GOOD equiptment =0)ahhh, well, not always

[ernstinen]

May 9, 2008, 1:09pm, lyle wrote:Close...but Paul got his Rick in August of '65 and used it almost exclusively during the Rubber Soul sessions. Seems like the winner for first use of the Rickenbacker was probably "Think For Yourself". (I adore geeky Beatles gear discussions!)http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum_view_ ... Page=2Mark, that's another great forum --- talk about Beatle geeks! And I thought "I" was one. It seems like Paul used his Rick in the late fall of '65 according to those guys. But about "Paperback Writer," Geoff Emerick said: "It was the first time the bass sound was heard in all its excitement. For a start, Paul played a different bass, a Rickenbacker. Then we boosted it further by using a loudspeaker as a microphone." That session was in April of '66, so he probably recorded with the Rick before that, I would suppose. I guess I'll have to ring up Paulie and ask HIM! Ern

[Mark Kaufman]

The cool thing about "Paperback Writer" is those nice round high notes he played on a Rick, and nothing else sounds so cool, same with "Rain"...I craved one ever since, and now I love my '72. This thread drift has been brought to you by Rickenbacker International Corporation. We now return you to "Mixing Insight" featuring your host, Glenn Galen.