NEWBIE needs a quick listen

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anne
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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by anne » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:52 am

But its so embarassing!No, but really - everything comes out like a Barry Manilow song, which is fine in the big picture but different (VERY different) then my intention. If anyone has suggestions on good books I could use some pointers in the right direction!Thanks - Anne

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by kouly » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:50 pm

Not that I am any good at it but as Jason Blume points out in his books, it is betterto use a word picture than just the description.One of my favorite songs,"Into The Night", by Benny Mardones, does a great job of this. Instead of saying something straight forward like I love you so much that..... the writers wrote.If I could flyI'd pick you upI'd take you into the nightAnd show you a loveLike you've never seen, ever seenWritersPaul Harrison, Larry Muller, Adam Clayton and Dave EvansNow those are quality lyrics.

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by carr » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:25 pm

Regardless of how man books you read. at some point you have to get out the pen and commit words to paper and post them publicly or you wont learn and you wont toughen up enough for writers row . Try writing NEW lyrics to some of your favourite songs. Keep the meaning but use alternate words and expressions.

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by Casey H » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:33 pm

Quote:AnneI started submitting the backing trracks to my recordings about two months ago... just the backing taking out the vocals.. . so far everything has been a return witht the same comment mentioned above " lacks a distinctive melodic phrase...." I am rethinking and getting the feeling that the tracks need some melodic theme or signature instrument in order to be "instumental". Otherwise... the listing itself would say "looking for backing tracks...." The other question that was floating round was if you sign a contract on an instrumental of a song that you also want to pitch as a vocal in the song pitch or artist market, how do you avoid getting your hands tied.....?ArkJackJackBacking tracks can sometimes be memorable and very film pitchable even without a melody line. It all depends on the nature of the track. I've been fortunate to be on my 3rd placement of a backing track, having never even planned to pitch these. In 2 cases, the tracks had very usable guitar riffs going on ("Adrenaline" and "Physical World") without necessarily following the melody. In the case of my latest placement of the backing track from "Painfully Single", the piano does follow the melody line pretty closely.One important piece of advice. Always have your backing tracks available and if you pitch your songs for film/TV, let the party you are submitting to know you have them. If you are mailing a CD, include both with and without vocal. Having both gives the music supervisor/editing folks a lot of flexibility to mix in and out what they need and it is generally a big plus.It might be a little trickier with TAXI electronic submissions since you don't generally have the chance to tell this (that you have the backing track too) to the screener or the listing party at submission time. One way would be to submit both with and without vocals and, unfortunately, pay double?. Suggestions from experienced TAXI members or TAXI welcome here. Happy pitching to all! Casey

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by Casey H » Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:47 pm

Quote:But its so embarassing!No, but really - everything comes out like a Barry Manilow song, which is fine in the big picture but different (VERY different) then my intention. If anyone has suggestions on good books I could use some pointers in the right direction!Thanks - AnneAnneI agree with what has been said. Write anything lyrically! Songwriting is about writing re-writing over and over anyway. Regarding books, if you go to your local large book store such as Barnes and Noble, there is a whole section with books on songwriting and lyric writing. One that comes to mind is "The Craft and Business of Songwriting" by John Braheny. There also are books that are about lyric writing only, but I can't think of the names right now. Just browse the shelves... BTW, if you do have a memorable melody line and need lyrics, you can meet many good collaborators right here. Casey

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by kouly » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:16 am

Quote:Backing tracks can sometimes be memorable and very film pitchable even without a melody line. It all depends on the nature of the track. I've been fortunate to be on my 3rd placement of a backing track, having never even planned to pitch these. In 2 cases, the tracks had very usable guitar riffs going on ("Adrenaline" and "Physical World") without necessarily following the melody. IThis brings up a point I was going to ask about. Would you say that these tracks havean implied melody? I noticed this in one of my pieces. It has a decent melody up until the finale.Then the production is such that with all the instrumentation you get a sense of melodywithout there actually being one present. I gather you feel this is acceptable since it has worked for you.

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by Casey H » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:47 am

Quote:Quote:Backing tracks can sometimes be memorable and very film pitchable even without a melody line. It all depends on the nature of the track. I've been fortunate to be on my 3rd placement of a backing track, having never even planned to pitch these. In 2 cases, the tracks had very usable guitar riffs going on ("Adrenaline" and "Physical World") without necessarily following the melody. IThis brings up a point I was going to ask about. Would you say that these tracks havean implied melody? I noticed this in one of my pieces. It has a decent melody up until the finale.Then the production is such that with all the instrumentation you get a sense of melodywithout there actually being one present. I gather you feel this is acceptable since it has worked for you.HiThere are no exact answers since film/TV and background needs vary so widely. I'm not sure how much there is an implied melody in the 2 guitar driven songs of mine I mentioned. I can't tell since I am so familiar with the songs in my head. But, if you listen to the first 10 seconds or so of the 2 songs I mentioned, you get a sense of how the energy in the guitar riffs is very key. Also, many placements only require a small piece of you track, sometimes as little as 15 to 30 seconds.Here are links to 2 songs and their backing tracks:http://www.broadjam.com/transmit/transm ... gbndsq=2An example use of the "Adrenaline" backing track is at:www.onthebrink.org .... Play the short film and note the music that comes in at around 2:15 into the short. Regards, Casey

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by liamkelly » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:49 pm

Anne While instrinsically there's nothing wrong with your tune in terms of key, or timing, or playing per se, it really sounds like someone practising on their new Casio keyboard. Sorry! I'm not deliberately trying to be an asshole (my songs are at www.liamkellylive.com and you're welcome to slam them) but do you really think any brand (even a small one) is going to use this?I know. You hate me now.

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by liamkelly » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:03 pm

Quote:Not that I am any good at it but as Jason Blume points out in his books, it is betterto use a word picture than just the description.One of my favorite songs,"Into The Night", by Benny Mardones, does a great job of this. Instead of saying something straight forward like I love you so much that..... the writers wrote.If I could flyI'd pick you upI'd take you into the nightAnd show you a loveLike you've never seen, ever seenWritersPaul Harrison, Larry Muller, Adam Clayton and Dave EvansNow those are quality lyrics. True.. but it's Paul Hewson and Larry Mullen though. And they have written much beter metaphors. Like 'see the stone set in your eyes' or 'I'm hanging out to dry wth my old clothes, my fingers still red from the prick of an old rose'.Simple lines. But powerful images. But they've become assholes in the last coupla years. Trust me - you're looking at a knowledegable but brokenhearted ex-U2 fan. Sold out, the so called spirited ones. Anyway, I digress. I guess Christianity is like any other business. Only good when it's profitable.Liam

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Re: NEWBIE needs a quick listen

Post by kouly » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:48 pm

Quote:True.. but it's Paul Hewson and Larry Mullen though. And they have written much beter metaphors. Like 'see the stone set in your eyes' or 'I'm hanging out to dry wth my old clothes, my fingers still red from the prick of an old rose'.Simple lines. But powerful images. But they've become assholes in the last coupla years. Trust me - you're looking at a knowledegable but brokenhearted ex-U2 fan. Sold out, the so called spirited ones. Anyway, I digress. I guess Christianity is like any other business. Only good when it's profitable.LiamI apologize since I just snagged that off of the first web page that I could find. I just really liked the melody and words seemed to fit so well. I have not been around the musical block that many times. I only vaguely understand what you mention aboutU2. From what I recall (and you can correct me if I am wrong) they started out asa Christian band (Sunday Bloody Sunday) and then got so popular the they kind of forgot about that aspect of their music. I was never a big follower of them. I wouldhope that Christianity is NOT like any business but I understand that being a Christianmusician would be much harder than a non Christian since you do have a standardto try to reach for. Which puts more pressures on what you do and how you do it. If your not really in it for Christ it soon becomes evident. The path of least resistanceis well traveled.

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