Non-chorus driven formats

[Casey H]

Hi allOK, I'm experienced enough to know that most of the time pitching a song that is not chorus-driven is pretty tough or even not worth the time. But, here's a question... Do you think there is any market for songs that are in formats such as ABAB (verse-bridge-verse-bridge) or AABA (verse-verse-bridge-verse) ? If so, in which genres?I have a few songs on the shelf that are in such formats. I tend to leave them on that shelf because I haven't yet come up with a chorus even though they may be hook-y as is. Conventional advice is to keep re-working until I get that chorus. But I wonder sometimes, if in some market and/or genre, they could be used....Any thoughts? Casey

[Mark Kaufman]

It's hard to picture...maybe you should post one or two? Seems like TAXI listings and TV/Film give opportunities for just about anything, over time.Come to think of it, "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" doesn't really have a chorus, does it? It's all verses and bridges...hmm...

[Casey H]

Quote:It's hard to picture...maybe you should post one or two? Seems like TAXI listings and TV/Film give opportunities for just about anything, over time.Come to think of it, "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" doesn't really have a chorus, does it? It's all verses and bridges...hmm...Most of the ones I have are not demo'd because I'm not sure about investing in them... Here is one that is demo'd (old) and is ABAB... Ignore lyrics, production, etc... Note: I'm not posting to discuss this song, just to discuss song formats.http://www.broadjam.com/transmit/transm ... hgbndsq=1I also don't really compare to hits from a long time ago (e.g. Rudolph, LOL)... White Christmas is AAA format (all verses) and was the biggest selling record of all time for about 30-40 years... Today's world and for unknowns like us is much tougher. Casey

[paults]

Singer-Songwriter songs and Folk songs are formats that could be without a chorus. They still always have a hook, though. when you say:(verse-bridge-verse-bridge), do you mean "Refrain" instead of bridge?

[squids]

I was listening to jonatha brooke the other day. She's just about to break into the national scene (she's the world's best kept east coast secret currently). Anyway, one of her biggest tunes is Prodigal Daughter, which is ABABAB (verse, hook, verse, hook, bridge, verse, hook). No chorus at all. She's triple A, definitely. I'd guess you're gonna hafta demo the best one of the lot and find out. It's tough, I know. (the cash, ack!)

[deantaylor]

Casey,It seems to me that film/tv wouldn't really care whether you had a true chorus or not. They only play a small piece of the song anyway and if that piece had great mood/performance/production and fit the scene .. then why wouldn't they use it. This is just a naive, common sense opinion. I have no real data or experience to back it up. Only a little anectodal evidence from watching films and tv shows.Dean

[Casey H]

Quote:I was listening to jonatha brooke the other day. She's just about to break into the national scene (she's the world's best kept east coast secret currently). Anyway, one of her biggest tunes is Prodigal Daughter, which is ABABAB (verse, hook, verse, hook, bridge, verse, hook). No chorus at all. She's triple A, definitely. I'd guess you're gonna hafta demo the best one of the lot and find out. It's tough, I know. (the cash, ack!) Thanks Squidly...It's always good to have examples of more modern music that is successful with non-chorus formats. I'm gonna download that one! It's easy to point out songs from the 60's and 70's (my strong influences) but that doesn't really mean all that much today. Older examples might be "Gentle On My Mind", written by John Hartford and a hit by Glenn Campbell, many Dylan songs (The Times They Are A Changin'), etc...I think it's safe to say that for a non-chorus song to have a chance, it better still have a killer hook- maybe even more so than if it had a chorus.BTW, the one song of mine that is ABAB and I'm very confident with is Blue Moment. I see it more about setting up the mood there.Do you think that some genres will accept non-chorus songs more than others? I don't think you could pitch (young) pop, country, or rock without a chorus and get far. Do you agree? Casey

[davewalton]

Quote:Casey,It seems to me that film/tv wouldn't really care whether you had a true chorus or not. They only play a small piece of the song anyway and if that piece had great mood/performance/production and fit the scene .. then why wouldn't they use it. I don't know if I'm using the right terms here or not but it depends on whether the music is being used as underscore or background. Music that simply sets a mood for dialog (underscore) pretty much has to be subdued. If you're watching a Travel Channel show about Alaska, the music behind the narrator usually blends in to the point where most people don't even realize that there's music there.For something like Echoman's recent "One Tree Hill" Taxi deal posted here on the forum, that has to be a really good song with a strong chorus. It's being used as background music to a party or bar or something like that and of course in real life, party goers are listening to popular music which, usually, hopefully, theoretically, all have strong choruses.The vast majority of Taxi listings seem like they all look for strong tracks/songs with strong, catchy melodies and choruses (for background music or used as feature music) as opposed to subdued underscore music (like an orchestra or rhythm guitar bed just setting the mood for dialog).

[geo]

Hey Casey, here's a song I wrote a while back in AABA, (written before I knew what AABA meant), I had it critiqued, here are the comments:Only YouThe trad'l AABA structure prob isn't what we'd typically find in a 'new wave' song, as I notice here on the lyric page. That structure is set up well here tho, altho somewhat of a surprise for its current retro rock genre to me, too. http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... eam=trueSo you can see the screener had issue with the structure and it is one of my lower scoring songs. I have used the chorus-less structure a couple of times and admit, I like it. Wait a minute, "I Will" might qualify as an AAAA song and it's my only forward, that's not commercial success but at least it says that they are not a waste of time, here's the lyric and link:http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... ream=trueI WillLyrics and music by George Danielscopyright 2007Chorus:Picture yourself, from now until,Who’s going to love you, know I will,I will, yes I will.Verse 1:Day to day, through the struggles of life,Who’ll help you win the battles you fight,I will, yes I will.When all is lost and the worst is done,Who’ll be there, the only one,I will, yes I will. (x2)Verse 2:Forsaking the past I forge ahead,Never be another I’d rather be dead,No one else can fill this space,.No one else can take your place.Feel the sun, so warm on your face. Chorus SoloVerse 3:Burning sun and blazing sky,Who’ll dig your well if the rivers run dry?I will, yes I will.When the winds blow with the winter’s bite,Who’ll light your flame in the chill of the night?I will, yes I will. (x2) ChorusEven though I have a chorus listed it follows the same structure of the verses with the hook at the end of the verses so I think that makes it an AAAA if I'm not mistaken?Anyway that's my two cents on that, a well written song should shine despite structure but then I've been wrong before (and will be again ).... GeoP.S. Happy New Year Casey

[edteja]

AABA is an important standard, Casey. Cole Porter and that school used it a bit (a lot). Torch songs. It is updated pretty easily by not following the strict flat four count.