Finale or Sibelius?

[ernstinen]

Hey All,I've doing professional orchestral scores for a long while, importing huge Midi files into MOTU's Mosaic.Unfortunately, MOTU isn't supporting Mosaic for Mac OS X. All my years of learning the program are down the drain, I fear. Soooo --- For Mac, which is the better program, and easiest to learn: Finale or Sibelius? And, more importantly, which is closest to Mosaic in the way they work? I sure don't want to spend a long time learning a new program, but such is life! Thanks in advance,Ern

[mazz]

Ern,I've used both Finale and Sibelius. I haven't used Mosaic in a long time but I would have to say that Sibelius is closer to it and IMO far easier to learn than Finale.I struggled with Finale. Sibelius has it's quirks and ways of doing things that don't make a lot of sense, but I still like it better than Finale. I would suggest dropping your attachment to Mosaic no matter what because you're going to have to learn some new language anyway, even if Sibelius is a little bit like it. Notation programs are not easy or intuitive to learn, in my experience.I'm just now starting to get Sibelius to work with the outside world as far as MIDI goes. I really don't care for sequencing in a notation program but I have a project that will force me to. So far I'm not impressed with the MIDI capabilities and the hoops to jump through to get it to communicate outside of the libraries it wants to use but I don't think it's a walk in the park no matter which way you go. Outputting MIDI from a notation program is still in it's infancy as far as I'm concerned.But the notation output of Sibelius is just fine and pretty tweakable. I've finished entering a 400+ measure orchestral piece for my composition teacher and I learned a lot doing it. I'm impressed with Sibelius on that level. Getting the score to sound like it looks is going to be a whole new ballgame. Film at 11 Hope this rambling post helps a little bit.Mazz

[ernstinen]

Hey Mazz!Thanks for your quick reply. The method I've used for years is sequencing a demo in Performer, mixing it, and THEN quantizing the parts. It's a pain, but MUCH better than importing Midi files without quantizing (64th notes, rests etc. Auurgh! ). Finally I import the Midi files into Mosaic, and spend months tweaking the finished product.So I've always done it "backwards," doing a sequenced recording of the piece first, and doing the score second. I'd like to keep doing it that way, and hope that I can easily import Midi files of my DP sequences into Sibelius (I think I'll probably go with Sib since I'm 1/2 Finnish! ).Will that work O.K.? I sure hope so, because I get stuck in my ways of doing things! Thanks again,Ern

[mazz]

Sibelius will import a MIDI file. If you clean it up in DP as you've been doing, it should come out as good as can be expected. You'll probably still need to do a lot of tweaking!I think you'll do fine with Sibelius.Good luck!!MazzPS: How's the ribs?

[ceedub]

I have used Finale for years and know it well. Occasionally, a client will need something delivered in Sibelius format. That happened this week so I upgraded to Sibelius 5, the current version. Even though I have used Sibelius only a handful of times, it's very easy to learn and use. I was impressed enough that I'm going to use Sibelius for my own work for a while and consider switching permanently. Both programs can do everything, so you can't go wrong, but I bet Sibelius is easier to learn.

[mazz]

One thing I've noticed: Finale seems to be the industry standard for sending files to publishers or for professional engravers. It's kind of like the ProTools of notation. But unless you're going to be doing that type of work, I would stick to Sibelius. Like ProTools, just because Finale is the standard doesn't make it the best, or the best for you (for a good example of that look at Windows for crying out loud!!)

[christig]

Dec 6, 2008, 7:50am, mazz wrote:One thing I've noticed: Finale seems to be the industry standard for sending files to publishers or for professional engravers. It's kind of like the ProTools of notation. But unless you're going to be doing that type of work, I would stick to Sibelius. Like ProTools, just because Finale is the standard doesn't make it the best, or the best for you (for a good example of that look at Windows for crying out loud!!)I have been using Finale for years and STILL struggle with it's quirks. The last upgrade i encountered was full of bugs. I have several pieces that no longer function. I have spent hours on the phone with tech support and nothing has been resolved. VERY disapointing and such a waste of time. Lately I have been using the notation option with Logic and for what I do it has been really successful.

[ckbarlow]

Because of a new teaching job, I was provided a (legal!) copy of Sibelius 5 and have found it to be one of the most elegant pieces of software I've dealt with lately -- "elegant" being the word my software-programmer buddies use for an application that is beautiful, simple and powerful all at once.I also did some quick research and found that Sibelius is what's taught at Berklee Coll of Music -- so I'm curious how much longer Finale will hold the industry-standard title.RE: Sequencing in a notation app: I personally rarely use notation; I'm a DAW gal. But definitely check out Sibelius's Live Playback feature. It lets you toggle playback between using the quantized (notated) version vs. the unquantized version that you either played in using FlexiTime input or imported from a sequencer -- that is, Sibelius will hold the original unquantized performance in memory and let you access it for playback / bouncedown purposes. With that feature, it's feasible to use Sibelius for both notation and reasonably human-sounding demo files. Mazz, look in your installation for the demo file called Live Playback.sib and check it out.

[ckbarlow]

Yeah, Ern, how are your ribs, poor guy?So MOTU is sending Mosaic down the plank, eh? I worked there waaaaaaay long ago, back in the day of just Performer (no Digital), before their first hardware came out, and shoot -- I can't even remember the name of their flagship notation package, the one I supported. Composer? Hmm... Mosaic was originally called Composer's Mosaic...

[ernstinen]

Dec 10, 2008, 6:08am, ckbarlow wrote:Yeah, Ern, how are your ribs, poor guy?So MOTU is sending Mosaic down the plank, eh? I worked there waaaaaaay long ago, back in the day of just Performer (no Digital), before their first hardware came out, and shoot -- I can't even remember the name of their flagship notation package, the one I supported. Composer? Hmm... Mosaic was originally called Composer's Mosaic...Ribs are getting better --- I just basted them with BBQ sauce, and they'll be ready to go in a couple more weeks! It didn't help that my sister-in-law's 90 pound lab smashed his snout into my broken ribs over Thanksgiving. That led to bronchitis, which I've been fighting for almost 2 weeks. I've been sleeping 12-14 hours a day, and am finally feeling better!Yup, MOTU ditched Mosaic awhile ago. It still supports OS 9, but when I upgraded my Mac to go to OS X for DP, Mosaic is history.Thanks for all your replies, everyone! I'll test drive Finale & Sibelius, but Sibelius looks like the one right now.Best Regards,Ern