Looking to pitch to a listing, need advice

[hummingbird]

this would work (so you don't use "dark" and "since" twice)Hold me once again, in this dark and lonely placeIt's been so long since you been here, since I saw your faceTwilight lingers so, (I can't find the) lightIn the shadows that I know, there's no end to my nightso the last thing you say is "no end to my night"why not?that's what the chorus is.like....In the shadows that I know, there's no end to my night--(I hate the) silenceor....In the shadows that I know, there's no end to my night--(where's the sunrise)Hope you'll keep posting your rewrites - I love to watch the creative process unfolding

[shorty]

Hold me once again, in this dark and lonely placeIt's forever that you've been here, since I saw your faceTwilight lingers so, since you took my light (light is used poetically as a reference to soul, life, love, etc. in other places... why not here?)In the shadows that I know, there's no end to my night

[shorty]

I want you to hold me, in your arms again, hold onto the silence, dont let this vision end* ?

[hummingbird]

Nov 24, 2009, 3:41pm, shorty wrote:Hold me once again, in this dark and lonely placeIt's forever that you've been here, since I saw your faceTwilight lingers so, since you took my light (light is used poetically as a reference to soul, life, love, etc. in other places... why not here?)In the shadows that I know, there's no end to my nightI like this except "since" is used twice. I don't have a problem with "light" but the phrase "since you took my light" feels... funny to me. You're saying, 'take me in your arms, I miss you so much, it's been too long, I've been in the dark - since you took my light' - it sounds... accusatory, like you are blaming them for leaving you in the dark. That's fine if that's what you mean and the chorus & the rest of the lyric supports it. JMHO, by the way, it's your lyric... just giving comments from my perspective. Keep or sweep

[hummingbird]

Nov 24, 2009, 4:01pm, shorty wrote:I want you to hold me, in your arms again, hold onto the silence, dont let this vision end* ?Again, JMPO... you are repeating then, what the verse already said.Let me ask these questions:where is she?why did he leave?is he actually there with her or is she calling to him?why is she so broken without him? why does he mean so much?

[shorty]

So, if it's for a movie, and they're going to use it in a specific scene, from everything I heard at the rally, for a movie that you don't want to develop the story too much because if it says something about how he broke her heart, it might not jive with the story in the movie too much. I'm wanting to discuss, and digest everything from the rally, hash it out you know. For example Norah Jones' Don't Know Why, it's pretty one note and the feelings described don't further the story or ever explain the relationship between her and the person she's singing about. Kind of open ended, I would venture to say the same about Sarah McLachlan's Angel. You never know exactly what the relationship is between the singer and the object of the song. I have also never seen the movie it was associated with, but apart from the movie the song seems pretty abstract. Please help me to understand or see what I'm missing here.

[shorty]

If anyone else has an opinion, the more the merrier!!

[Casey H]

My observation has been in pop and rock, the level of story detail required is much less than with country. You still need some depth but not as much. Sometimes it's as simple as 1-2 lines in a bridge which fill in just a little more info. I may not think it needs to answer as many questions as Vikki does, but it could say a lot more.The music here is very beautiful, BTW... It needs more sectional contrast but you have the start of something very sweet and pretty.MHO is focus first on what you want to say in each section, regardless of the actual words, rhymes, etc. Storyboard it-- an outline. It's like what we had to give our English teachers in school sometimes. When I get in trouble, I fall back on that-- e.g. "What do I want to say in V1?" "In V2?" "In the chorus?" "In the bridge?"...In V1 you are setting up the story and you have some of that like telling the listener that it's been forever since he was there... You could do more on the story setup. You may not want to start the first verse with "Hold Me"-- you are giving away the hook line too soon. Let that first verse make the first occurrence of "Hold Me" really shine. V2 doesn't add much new. It should be expanding on the story you set up in V1. Make the listener really yearn for that next "Hold Me" chorus.When I went back to listen a few times and write this I had trouble being sure I was identifying the sections right. Some of that might be the repeating of the same two words so much. Also, a bridge would be good to break things up.You are right that the story can stay fairly general for film/TV. However, the basic elements of a very good song still need to be there. Even though someone may end up using only 30 seconds of a track somewhere, if the SONG doesn't impress, it won't get signed. If a film/TV person thinks it lacks sectional contrast, lyrics are too cliche, it's too repetitive, doesn't hook enough, or any of the SONG things that are "the norms", it won't make it. Don't forget that THIS listing also mentioned the song being cut by a major artist. So this really has to be GREAT, at least for this listing.You might want to step back from it for a few days and think of the re-work as more than fixing a phrase here and there. Look at the big picture of the story (even if minimal) and how you want to tell it.Again, you could have a beautiful Sarah M. style tune here with some work. I do have the musical hook in my head!HTH Casey

[hummingbird]

Hey, just trying to help. I think you have a beautiful concept, but it needs some further development. Even if you don't put all the details of the story in the lyric, you need to know what it is so you can express it to us. For some reason the music isn't playing for me so I'm missing that part of this, which bugs me cause it sounds like it's great!! Casey gave some great advice. [I was noodling with a song for this listing last night and it's nowhere as good as yours yet!]

[shorty]

Oh I'm not upset, I appreciate everything you are saying! If we were sitting face to face, you'd see I'm very interested in wanting a discussion, banter, dialogue, etc... I apologize if it comes off as rude, impudent or argumentative. I've been examining the referred songs, and trying to make sense between what you all have been saying and the songs themselves. If I was upset, I would state how I felt. I prefer a straight to the point, direct sort of communication without emoticons. I despise emoticons, and I don't feel a need to include a happy face at the end of every sentence because you might take what I'm saying the wrong way. I realize that the previous statement is very direct, and could be taken as biting, cold, and calculating, far from what I intend. Allow me to impress upon you that I value your opinion, very much so. Without the opinions of you or Casey or others, I would be a songwriter in a box, no link to the outside world and other people's reactions to what I'm writing. Since my intent is to write for an audience, having peer to peer evaluations is important and treasured. The more the merrier! I crave input from a variety of sources, so that I may get a well rounded view of the song as a whole. Please continue to input as you see fit, your opinion is valued.If you continue to have issues with the song, send me a pm with your email and I'll send you the track!