Co-writing

[cameron]

Hello all,I've had a couple of people suggest co-writing to me. A recent Taxi critique mentioned it too. Frankly, the thought scares me a little bit, although I do see how someone who's strong at lyrics paired with someone who is strong with melodies could be a good thing. I also understand that it is advantageous to co-write with someone who is already published as 1) the song may get pitched by the other writer's publisher and 2) it might get your foot in the door with the publishing company. My questions are: 1) Unless you can find a staff writer who has writer's block and is behind on his one song per month commitment, would a published writer want to co-write with an unpublished one? 2) Why would a publishing company promote a song they'll only make 1/2 as much on?Thanks!Cameron

[sgs4u]

Cam, ask yourself these questions each mornings for 3 days. You'll get many surprising answers. Or better yet, start a thread on this forum - new reasons to co-write will flood towards you. Sept 5, 2008, 12:26pm, cameron wrote:Hello all,I've had a couple of people suggest co-writing to me. A recent Taxi critique mentioned it too. Frankly, the thought scares me a little bit, although I do see how someone who's strong at lyrics paired with someone who is strong with melodies could be a good thing. I also understand that it is advantageous to co-write with someone who is already published as 1) the song may get pitched by the other writer's publisher and 2) it might get your foot in the door with the publishing company. My questions are: 1) Unless you can find a staff writer who has writer's block and is behind on his one song per month commitment, would a published writer want to co-write with an unpublished one? 2) Why would a publishing company promote a song they'll only make 1/2 as much on?Thanks!Cameron

[davewalton]

Sept 5, 2008, 12:26pm, cameron wrote:Hello all,I've had a couple of people suggest co-writing to me. A recent Taxi critique mentioned it too. Frankly, the thought scares me a little bit, although I do see how someone who's strong at lyrics paired with someone who is strong with melodies could be a good thing. I also understand that it is advantageous to co-write with someone who is already published as 1) the song may get pitched by the other writer's publisher and 2) it might get your foot in the door with the publishing company. So far so good... you probably should have stopped there and not done any more "thinking" but since you did decide to "think" some more... Quote:My questions are: 1) Unless you can find a staff writer who has writer's block and is behind on his one song per month commitment, would a published writer want to co-write with an unpublished one? It's about ideas and possibly expanding our horizons. In many ways, one of the only differences between a "published" writer and an "unpublished" one is maybe one of timing. The other guy/gal isn't published... yet. Doesn't mean that they don't have interesting musical ideas or that the blending of your ideas can't produce something magical. Of the few co-writes I've done lately, the "ideas" factor really went a lot higher than it would have if I had attempted those kinds of things on my own. Originally when I heard "co-write" I thought only within my own little universe... Oh... "co-write"... I'll co-write with Mazz or Matto or someone that's doing the same thing I'm doing. That's fine but now when I think "co-write"... I'm looking to find someone outside of my normal genre and see what happens when unlikely sources collaborate. So far it's been great and with what I have in the co-writing "hopper" that trend is continuing. Quote:2) Why would a publishing company promote a song they'll only make 1/2 as much on?They don't make half as much. Under normal circumstances, they'll take all of the publishers share no matter how many writers there are. In reality you're giving up nothing... that song you co-write never would have come about if not for the co-write and the ideas from the other person (combined with your own). So you could keep 100% of nothing or 50% of something. I'll take the latter every time.

[jay10music]

1) Unless you can find a staff writer who has writer's block and is behind on his one song per month commitment, would a published writer want to co-write with an unpublished one? Because they like what you are doing and your writing style compliments theres? Especially in Nashville, you never know what UNsigned writer is going to be the "next big thing" so when an unsigned writer (like me) takes a publisher meeting and that publisher likes what they are doing, the publisher will usually offer up a cowrite with some of their signed writers. I do this all the time.2) Why would a publishing company promote a song they'll only make 1/2 as much on? AH! But you are missing a very valuable point here. Yes, they own only 1/2 of the publishing monies, BUT if two signed writers wrote it, then there are twice as many people pitching the song, increasing its odds of being cut.

[cameron]

Note to self: Get signed...

[sgs4u]

Sept 5, 2008, 1:37pm, cameron wrote:Note to self: Get signed...Note to Cam: re-read the entire thread you started

[byllsong]

Note to Cam: ...There are quite a few co-writers on this forum.

[jchitty]

As an aside and not really related to the question of why a publishing company or a published writer would want to work with an unknown, I have thoroughly enjoyed my collabs here. I've written with 4 TAXI members now, and I'm currently working on another project with a 5th TAXI member. I used to be so deal and foward oriented, but here lately, I'm just concerned with creating my music, building my catalog and hopefully being prepared for a day when I actually might get that deal. It's the old 'hard work finally meets luck' thingy. The song you create today may not get a deal right now, but who's to say what will happen down the line?I am learning this is a biz of waiting, especially if you're a country songwriter. And a business of building relationships too. And after all is said and done, you may still never get a cut. I'm sure Nashville is filled with writers who work hard, but never get a deal. But you do it 'coz you love it...even though it's maddening at times. Collaborations have helped me evolved in ways I never could have. I've had quite a few people on this forum PM me and tell me how much better my writing has become since I've been collaborating with other members. They can spot your weaknesses and I really do believe two heads are better than one. It's up to you, Cam....you know what's best for you, but I've had nothing but good experiences with collabs. BTW, I owe some folks here e-mails, and I will answer ASAP.

[claire]

I'm not good at responding to posts after i've read them, so I'll just say that cowriting can be an amazing experience - especially if you do it in real time and not just via the Internet. When it's a good connection and the chemistry is there, the energy level is amazing and you look at each other afterwards and say "omigod, look what we just did!". Yes, it's very sensual. Cowriting is also like blind dating, though, and if the chemistry isn't there or if it's too much like work or if you piss each other off, it's not worth pursuing that particular cowriter (for me, at least). I've written with a lot of people and now have pretty much narrowed it down to three regulars. I can't deal with writing long distance via emails because nobody is breathing. There are these annoying lags between sending out a "waddya think" and getting back something that bears absolutely no resemblance to what you're thinking, etc. For me it's a pain in the rear.I heard someone once say that writing songs is like getting naked in front of a stranger. If you want the song to be amazing, you can't have any shame or hold anything back. In that sense, cowriting can really be intimidating because you've got to allow yourself to be vulnerable. But ahhh, the end results can be amazing.Nashville is, of course, a town of cowriters. There are very few pro writers who write alone. When you ask a question like why would a staff writer want to write with someone who isn't signed, the answer is often because the unsigned writer brought a phenomenal idea to the staff writer. Bring me an idea. If I'm signed to a publisher I can write with other staff writers but I'll write with you if you bring me a killer idea (not me personally, it's just what gets them interested in you - that and the fact that they listen to your songs and realize you're not some dork who can't put a song together).I had a meeting with a local publisher recently and he asked me what I wanted (from him). I said I wanted him to set me up with some new cowriters, particularly staff writers. He was very honest when he said that it's really hard to get pro writers who are willing to write with folks at my level because writing is their livelihood. They make their living by writing songs. They don't have much free time and if they're going to look for someone new to write with, it's probably going to be another staff writer. Nothing personal, just business. It made sense to me because if I was a house painter looking for someone to help me paint a house, I probably wouldn't go to someone who paints still life oil paintings - I'd look for another experienced house painter. Maybe I've been doing this too long when being rejected starts to make sense to me!The upshot of my meeting was an open door with that publisher and he did set me up with two cowrites with other unsigned writers who are a step or two ahead of me in the holds department.Yes, there are obvious advantages to having two people pitching a song and as far as signing the song to a publisher, I'm of the opinion that 50% (or 25%) of something is worth better than 100% of nothing.Beyond all the logical and business reasons to cowrite, it all comes back to the magic of creating something that is better than it would have been if I'd written it alone. Give it a shot and see what you think Claire

[sgs4u]

Sept 5, 2008, 3:27pm, claire wrote:Beyond all the logical and business reasons to cowrite, it all comes back to the magic of creating something that is better than it would have been if I'd written it alone. Give it a shot and see what you think ClaireClairity!