Modes.... need a simple explanation please.

[geo]

I wanted to thank everyone for trying to help out... I'm going rain check my study of modes for now but will be back... Geo

[diogenes]

Some one may have already said this, I haven't read all the posts, but heres my take on modes (this is from a guitarist point of view).Start with a Major scale. It has seven notes. each one of those notes can be the beginning of a new scale/mode. Say your in F, 1st position. The second note is G. If you play all the same notes as you did in F but start with a G root, your playing G dorian. Simple as that. I've always thought of the modes as way to get around the entire fret board while stying in key. There are a couple different ways to look at it, but I think that is the easiest. Pick up a copy of the Guitar Grimoir. It has the most logical and easy explanation that I've encountered. With regards to your chord progression, how about Em pentatonic? It is a blues progression after all. And just how there is a new pattern for every note of the Major scale, the same thing applies to the pentatonic scales. I can't recommend that book enough. Remember the Em pent is the same as E Aeolian (the regular minor scale) but with 2 notes missing, so you could combine those if you want, then incorporate a little D mixolydian (mode V). Get that book!

[stephen]

Ok I didn't read all the post but most of what I skimmed through said it right. It's not so much about progressions.There are eight modes: Say we are in C MAJORStarting from C to C is InonianStarting from D to D using the key signature of C (all the notes) is DorianStarting from E to E using the key signature of C is PhrygianStarting from F to F using the key signature of C is if LydianStarting from G to G using the key signature of C is MixolydianStartin from A to A using the key signature of C if AeolianStarting from B to B using the key signature of C LocrianHope this helps.

[stephen]

Sorry that's Seven modes not eight

[gongchime]

Explanation of modes: Hmmm... It's too simplistic to say that if you start the C Major scale on D and play from D to high D then that creates the intervalic design of whole-step, half-step, whole-step, whole-step whole-step, half-step, whole-step which is the D Dorian scale. It can also be shown as 1, 1/2, 1, 1, 1, 1/2, 1. It's also too simplistic to say that if you want to play C Dorian then you get C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C. It is still yet, too simplistic to say that C Dorian is just a major scale with a flat three and a flat 7 also portrayed as 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7, 8 or a Major b3 b7 scale. And it's also too simplistic to say that it can be thought of as a minor scale with a raised sixth degree. Aka a minor#6 scale. It can also be thought of as a mixolydian scale with a b3 but that would be going too far. The reason the word simplistic keeps popping up is because where you stop and start the Major/minor modes does not determine the mode that you hear. The chords do. If you play a C major scale while your rhythm guitarist is starting the song on Dm, ending the song on Dm as well as emphasizing the 4th and 5th chord in the "KEY" of D Dorian (aka the 2nd mode of C Major) then you're C major scale will never sound like C major and will always sound like D Dorian no matter what you do.It has to do with the chord qualities that occur on each scale degree. In a major "KEY" the first chord is called Major 7th. In the key of C that becomes C Major 7. Which is what you get when you skip every other note starting on C to build a chord. CEGB are the notes in the chord. Continuing like this you get a C Major 7th chord, a D min 7th chord, an E minor 7th chord, an F major 7th chord, a G Dominant 7th chord, an A minor 7th chord, and finally a B half diminished 7th chord. This can also be shown using Roman numerals for ease of transposition:IM7, iim7, iim7, IVm7, V7, vim7, vii half.dim.7. Notice the Fifth chord is a dominant chord.The Dorian "KEY" uses all the same chords as the key of C Major except it more than likely does not start or end on C Major. It starts and ends on D minor instead. It also does not place C major's fifth chord G7 in any structurally important places and it also does not emphasize the fifth chords dominant quality. When playing the G chord in the D Dorian "KEY" you probably don't want to use the G chords seventh (which is the note F) because then it would create a tritone within the chord between the notes B and F that will want to resolve since the interval those two notes make is so dissonant. That would cause a feeling of finality to occur on the next chord which your ear would want to hear as C. This is because the note B will go to the note C and the note F will go to the note E. If you hear the notes C and E together what do you think of? the answer is that you will think of the C major chord. The key of D Dorian must de-emphasize both C as a goal and G7 as the dominant chord. The D minor chord is the goal in the key of D Dorian. If we treat D as the first chord instead of C then we get:Dm7 Em7 FM7 G7 Am B half. dim. CMaj7. This can also be shown with roman numerals for ease of transposition to other starting notes. im7 iim7 IIIM7 IV7 vm7 vi half. dim 7, VIIM7. Notice the key of D Dorian does not have the important dominat quality on the 5th chord. The 5th chord is Am7 in the key of D Dorian. A classical composer might substitute a dominant chord on the 5th when it arrives to push the music much more forcefully back to Dm but this defeats the more relaxed feeling of groove based music. Another one of the reason why groove based music such as pop, rock, funk and hip hop have any kind of groove at all is it's lack of a raised 7th scale degree which is also known as the Major 7th scale step or the half step that exists between the 7th note of the scale and the 8th. This causes chords to create more tension and release than is desirable in groove based music which wants to avoid cadencing so frequently. Most of those styles of music will not be using the Major/Ionian key so much in that case. They will also not be using the Lydian key which also has a raised 7th. That raised 7th scale degree resolves upwards by half step to the tonic which is the first note of the scale. There is also a scale with a leading tone that resolves downward by half step to the tonic. It's the Phrygian Mode. Usually it is only used in Flamenco and Heavy metal music occasionally. The Locrian key built on the 7th degree of the major scale does not have a note on the 5th scale step which is a perfect 5th interval from the tonic. The locrian key has a bV chord on the fifth step, which if it were of the dominant quality (which it isn't) would resolve to the raised seventh degree instead of the tonic and all sense of tonic would be lost. So for the groove based styles of music, we are left with Dorian, Mixolydian, and Aeolian. None of them have a raised seventh or lowered 2nd scale step. In fact they all have a lowered 7th which is perfect for groove based music. If you like jazz then they use scales which add color to the chords/key. If the jazz tune is in CMajor then when the rhythm guitarist/keyboardist is playing the CMajor7th chord, the person improvising will not play a C Major 7 scale because it is seen as too flat footed and boring in that context. Instead, the improviser would play a C Lydian scale over the CMajor7th chord because the C Lydian scale has a #4 scale degree which adds a nice "color" to the KEY. Basically, a "wrong" note. Also, if the rhythm guitarist/keyboardist is playing the vi chord of the key of C major which is the A minor 7th chord, then the improviser may not continue to play the C Major scale or the A minor scale but will play the A dorian scale instead because the A dorian scale has a raised 6th which also spices up the key. That then, is Gongchime's handy dandy explanation of modes.

[hookstownbrown]

Let's just explain it in laymen terms for someone who needs a basic explanation.Different modes are the suburbs of any specific key.If you are in any certain key, different modes -- Lydian, Dorian, Mixolydian, Phrygian etc... It primarily means that you resolve on any chord or note other than the root. In GENERAL terms, each different mode relates to a focus on the 2nd, third, fourth, etc... For the most part, it's a modern jazz and classical thing.For all of you technical troubadors... Please don't give me an uncomprehensible diatribe on the exceptions and Bachcidentals...The simple explanation is what's asked for here. I think I nailed it... Not bad for a country songwriter, eh?

[gongchime]

Actually, rock and metal also have a sophisticated modal vocabulary. Not so much classical which long ago turned into only two "keys." Major and minor... minor being any combination of Aeolian, harmonic minor or melodic minor (Think chord substitutions). But anyway, I like folk music for it's straightforward approach to modal use. As far as modal chord PROGRESSIONS go, so many books talk about which progressions define a certain mode. But those aren't really the progressions being used so much in the actual music.Different from functional chords in the major/minor arena which frequently move by fourth and fifth, the defining characteristics of modal chord progressions are that they most often move by step instead of a fourth or fifth although those occur occasionally as well. And of course modal music uses the I, IV and/or V at important structural points such as at the ends or beginnings of sections.

[gongchime]

As for the progression you gave E / / / A / E / / / B / A /. If you see each of these as Dominant seventh chords aka E7 / / / A7/E7/ / / B7/ A7/ then what we've got here is some kind of blues progression. Usually in Blues you would just play either the E minor pentatonic or the E blues scale over the whole thing from beginning to end. But it is possible to use the Mixolydian scale over each chord which is one approach often used in jazz for blues settings. When the E chord is playing, whether or not it has the dominant seventh note of the chord added, you can play the E Mixolydian modal scale over the E Major chord/E Dominant 7th chord. The E Mixolydian mode is E F# G# A B C# D E. It's basically E Major with a lowered seventh. Then when the tune changes to the A Major/A Dominant 7th chord in the fourth measure, you'd have to switch to playing the A Mixolydian mode for only that measure. Then switch back to playing the E mixolydian again starting on the fifth measure. But this isn't really answering your question. You asked what would a modal PROGRESSION would look like. Viki said it's about scale and not progression but then immediately starts talking about altering the progression which is in fact what it's about. Viki said:"a mode would be more about notes than about chord progression.I think yourE / / / A / E / / / B / A /would use the Phrygian scaleso, typically, in the key of E major, the notes of the scale would beE, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, EPhrygian scale notes would be"E, F, G, A, B, C, D" (playing the white notes on the piano)So you would have to change your chord progression toEm / / / Am / Em / / / Bmb5 / Am / so there are no flats or sharps"The roots E, A and B could also create an E dorian modal progression and an E aeolian modal progression. It's steer clear from phrygian unless you're shooting for a flamenco or Ingwie Malmsteen Heavy Metal sound. For an E dorian modal progression you'd want to be using an E minor chord, an A major chord and a B minor chord. This also doesn't have that nasty minor 7 flat five aka half diminished chord that Viki gave. Yuck! What music has a half diminished chord in a functionally important location like this? Usually Pat Methany would use the normal minor 7th chord as a substitution in the situation Vikki has created.Emin7 / / / A Major(not dominant 7) / Emin7 / / / Bmin7 / A Major (not dominant 7)It's a little bit strange to play a minor seventh chord and then have it followed by a non seventh triad. We don't want to use the A's seventh since it's dominant, therefore we can just use one of the other non chord tones such as the 9, 11 or 13 to fill out the voicing. I vote for an A Major 9 chord which is very pretty. The 11th usually sounds horrid in major chords and I reserve the 13 for dominant and altered dominant chords. But that's just me. To make the progression into an aeolian modal progression then just change all the chord qualities to minor. As in Emin7 / / / Amin7 / Emin7 / / / Bmin7 / Amin7 /.This is just the E minor key you say? Wrong! The key of E "MINOR" implies the ability to use the harmonic minor scale and the melodic minor scales in creating chord substitutions to fit over a chromatically altering melody which may switch between natural minor and melodic minor primarily. The key of E Aeolian implies that you are not going to use any chord substitutions from E harmonic minor or melodic minor and that you also will not be using chromatic melodic material which shifts between E natural minor and E melodic minor. While the rhythm guitarist/keyboardist continually hammers out the key of E Aeolian you CAN however use the E dorian scale instead over the top, especially over the Em7 chord but also over the whole thing. But a jazz cat upon arriving upon the A min chord might then switch to A natural minor. Over the Bm7, it can sound good to switch to B Dorian at that point. In modal jazz and minor blues another technique is often employed which is called side-slipping. You can be going along playing the E dorian scale over the E aeolian progression and during the turnaround or some other place decided by you on the spur of the moment, temporarily shift to F dorian or E flat Dorian. This is called a "wrong note scale". Just make sure you don't stay there, you have to come back to the "right note scale" usually at a structural point such as when it returns to the beginning, It's just another way of creating tension and release without resorting to chord substitutions and frees up the melody from it's modal constraints. I like to think of them as melodic substitutions. HeheIt's been fun.

[andreh]

Quote:In GENERAL terms, each different mode relates to a focus on the 2nd, third, fourth, etc...The simple explanation is what's asked for here. I think I nailed it... Not bad for a country songwriter, eh? Hi Hook-Not bad! Your description is missing a piece of relevant mode-related info, though...that the song itself is usually in the key of [whatever 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.] that you're resolving to.As a sidenote, guitarists have a much easier time of playing in different modes (once they understand the concept) than do keyboardists, since all they need to do is move their hands to the right fret and play an already-known scale. Keyboard players have to worry about all those different colored & oriented keys! AndréBTW - Happy belated birthday!

[hookstownbrown]

Andre...Thank you, sir!