Re: Moral Support for Songwriters

jchitty · Post by **jchitty** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:44 am

Quote:I live in the same world as y'all. Sometimes, it does make me very sick and depressed. I think that its potentially terminal as well. Meaning, unless I actually get a cut with a major artist, I have no way to prove to these 'significant others' that my effort is worthwhile, and I'm actually very good. Kind of like saying ' I'm an astronaut, but I haven't flown the shuttle yet..... I could complain that my wife isn't supportive, but to be fair, it is kind of ridiculous to have 9 guitars, 3 basses, 3 keyboards, and 3 recording machines, when I only have me and my two hands to play them. (Its made it hard to argue her for having 5 different sewing machines....) We've been married 23 years and she's always "let me" have a studio and instrument collection of this proportion. I call that supportive. On the other hand, I was in upstate NY visiting her family over the holiday. Her mother is recouping from leg surgery at a rehab center. I suggested it would be nice if I brought my guitar over and played some Holiday songs for the patients. Negative reaction doesn't begin to describe her response. At that moment, I felt genuinely "disowned". Which is an emotion I frequently encounter, like 'uh... I don't know this person....' I think I've seen that from my kids and close friends as well. I think those are the hardest unspportive moments to deal with.ArkJackMy husband is very supportive of me. He's a one man cheerleading section. He even took up the banjo so he could participate in my hobby and feel a part of it...now he plays some of my songs. He says his banjo playing also relieves the stress of his job now. But when it comes to other friends and family, I don't share my songwriting that much with them unless they are really into music, and while I've had some very good responses, I've learned that I can only go so far. I've also learned to 'feel people out'......there are some friends who just resent what you do because they feel like they've never pursued their dreams, so they don't want you too either. Or there are the friends who think you're worthless because you don't have a big hit under your belt. Then there are those fair weather types who only kiss your arse if they feel like you're successful or you can 'do something for them.' All these types of friends are the ones I avoid discussing my music with at all costs....I don't need extra negativity in my life...I have enough rejection from the industry, thank you very much. I can understand getting depressed too....not to dismiss other genres, I know it's very hard for them as well, but country songwriters have it particulary tough. I feel particularly underappreciated at times. Nashville is such an insular town, and most of us country writers toil away behind the scenes in virtual obscurity. There are only so many rewards to go around, and the majority of us will never get that cut. But if you're like me, you do it because it's just what you do....kind of like your kindly old uncle who collects antique salt and pepper shakers.

ragani · Post by **ragani** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:59 am

This is just the best thread! Thanks for taking the plunge into the forum with this post, LHMias-- what a real upper it is to real all these heartfelt posts! Now I know why I stick around here-- there is so much support for musicians here, and it's a super place to let the musician in me find some real and heartfelt camaraderie. LHMias, clearly you have already found your friends here. When you have songwriting in your blood, connections with like-minded people (like those in TAXI-land) are absolutely vital to the enrichment of your life. It's like life-support. Can you imagine wanting to develop your love of snow sculptures if you lived in Bali? Finding a supportive community environment and a place to let your wings unfold is like breathing life into the heart. So plant your feet here, spend some time among friends who support your dreams, and go for it! Life it too short to waste with people who won't encourage us to live our dreams!! And it's my firm belief that once we understand that our deepest dreams are important for vitality and absolutely well-being, there is little time to be wasted in places where there is no support. Life is too short! Once that decision (to live among the supportive ones) is made, life swings open it's doors (and windows!) in a big way, and we wonder why we didn't make those decisions a lot earlier. We're all rooting for you, LHMias! Thank you for starting this thread, and for sharing something that strikes a deep chord with so many musicians and songwriters. May all your dreams come true. Raags

telaak · Post by **telaak** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:29 am

I know exactly where you're at...most people I know don't even know I play guitar, OR that I write songs..these days if you're not on the radio or have something musically going on..people look at you like you're some kind of dreamer/lunatic..even after a decent amount of what I consider success, I rarely bring up my music in social circles..it's sad too..because it's one of the most important things in my life..it changed my life..and @ times I think it saved my life..If I do slip up & mention my music @ a family function I usually get that look..you know..the one where they want to seem interested and use that "tone" when they talk to you about it..I mean very few people understand how radio & the music biz works..so almost everybody thinks "if your stuff is so good - why isn't it on the radio ?"to even attempt to answer that question is an exercise in futility..you know this the only person who always wanted to hear my songs was my mom..she died yesterday...thanks for posting this..took my mind off it for a while..songwriting IS part of you..the people close to you SHOULD respect it..they don't have to love it..but they should respect it..hope that helped..john

jchitty · Post by **jchitty** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:07 pm

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mother, Telaak. I know that nothing can take the place of a mother's love and support. Hopefully in the days to come, this board might be a bit of a comfort for you. Yes, we all share the same journey as songwriters.

squids · Post by **squids** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:22 pm

Quote:I know exactly where you're at...most people I know don't even know I play guitar, OR that I write songs..these days if you're not on the radio or have something musically going on..people look at you like you're some kind of dreamer/lunatic..even after a decent amount of what I consider success, I rarely bring up my music in social circles..it's sad too..because it's one of the most important things in my life..it changed my life..and @ times I think it saved my life..If I do slip up & mention my music @ a family function I usually get that look..you know..the one where they want to seem interested and use that "tone" when they talk to you about it..I mean very few people understand how radio & the music biz works..so almost everybody thinks "if your stuff is so good - why isn't it on the radio ?"to even attempt to answer that question is an exercise in futility..you know this the only person who always wanted to hear my songs was my mom..she died yesterday...thanks for posting this..took my mind off it for a while..songwriting IS part of you..the people close to you SHOULD respect it..they don't have to love it..but they should respect it..hope that helped..johnOh, John, I'm so sorry to hear that....your mom. That's such a loss. Please accept my most heartfelt condolences, not only because she was your mom but because she was a great supporter.And I agree with you. I do the same......very few people know what I do with music in this area anymore. I don't mention it socially, although lots of people I hang with have gone to my shows when I do them (I still occasionally dip into the waters). I guess I figured out a while ago that while they like it okay, they don't get it and I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable or anything. Plus, I stopped working with amateurs and that changed some things around here too. Some folks thought I was getting snooty but the truth is, it was a lot of time and effort and not a lot of ROI. So now I lay pretty low in my hometown and while it's not the way I'd like it, I'm finally okay with it. It's a bit lonely sometimes but I don't think I got into music because I dreamed of fame or whatever, mostly because it was something inside of me that wanted a way to express itself and that hasn't changed. Putting people between me and the source sometimes only clutters the landscape. Anyway, I'm glad you found us on the forums. And I'm really sorry about your mom.

deantaylor · Post by **deantaylor** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:20 am

I guess I am lucky. My wife is supportive of my songwriting. And most of my friends are too. One in particular is super supportive. He even reads a lot of my raw lyrics before they are put to music. So, I can't complain. But I guess I have also learned where to draw the line. I try not to talk too much about it. And I don't expect my wife to be jazzed by everything I write (early on .. maybe I did expect this .. lol) .. I only show her stuff that I think might be personally interesting to her .. like if I write about her or one of her ideas. And if she is not into talking about it much .. that's cool.DeanPS Chits, Anne, I too came to songwriting after long illness.

arkjack · Post by **arkjack** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:41 am

John, so sorry about your loss of your mother. When I thought about it, my mom and dad and especially my grandmother were the most supportive of me in pursuing music. My grandmother was an Oberlin graduate, and she had the means to get me some very nice instruments early on as Christmas and birthday presents. It was also my grandmother who introduced me to Red Thornburgh who had connections in Nashville and tried to help me get my songs published and cut when I was just a teenager. My mom and dad were cool, letting me have garageband setups and jam sessions, and funded the lessons and college. I remember having parties at my house where we would set up the bandfront and PAs and amps in the living room and 50 to 100 friends would come over while we performed. I only hear of folks every once in a while who hire a band for a house party, though I hear its getting to be more of the in thing to do these days. Brings to mind a lot of great memories, and I wish you great consolation in your memories as well.ArkJack

telaak · Post by **telaak** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:40 pm

thanks for the kind words..didn't mean to hijack the thread..the thing about my mom just kind of spilled out as I was typing...sorry Lmias..now back to the topic..john

ephlat66 · Post by **ephlat66** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:05 pm

telaak-Don't apologize - you have certainly not "hijacked" the thread. This conversation is all about our support systems (or the lack therof) and I'm certain that I can't begin to understand your grief.This thread overall has been incredible reading for me, and will probably prevent future arguments with my wife!I have rather an interesting background as a songwriter/musician. My parents divorced when I was fairly young. My father became one of those "absentee" things, and my mother had very little good to say of him. My father was (and is) a writer, photographer and musician. As a young man, he was a concert pianist and played cello for a symphony orchestra of medium importance. He was (and is) a dreamer, an artist and a bit of a renaissance man. His genius was in some ways responsible for the divorce - let's face it, we creative types can be damned hard to live with.So, since my father wasn't around much, I was primarily raised by my mother, who is a wonderful person, but was pretty negative on the whole artist/dreamer concept, and married my step-dad, who was the ultimate pragmatist. So when I discovered as a kid that my dearest desire was to be a songwriter/musician... well, I don't want to say the idea was exactly squelched, but it certainly was not supported, except through my occasional and long-distance communication with my father. My dad's support was just enough to continue to harbor the desire, and I did what I could to pursue it; spent untold hours at the piano irritating the family. Wrote lyric after lyric that only my druggie musician wannabe friends ever saw.Strangely, when I married, my wife turned out to be the pragmatist who similarly could not understand a dreamer. So, in the process of supporting a family, I put those dreams away. For the 12 years of our marriage, I didn't write a single phrase of music. But even though i tried to tuck it away, the good Lord put me here for a reason, and my nature is to dream and to create. Our nature is not something we can subjugate forever.So when that marriage ended, I resolved not to spend the rest of my life wishing that I had pursued this dream of creating beautiful music that meant something, and that would mean something to the people who listened to it.I have since remarried, and my current wife has also really struggled with trying to be supportive of this insane dream. But I decided early on in our marriage that my pursuit of my heart's desire is not dependent on the approval of people who don't understand! I love my wife, and while it has been a source of conflict at times - both from a time-invested AND a money-invested standpoint - I have made it clear that this is something that I am going to pursue. Period. And as long as I am not neglecting family and financial duties, there is very little that she can say.So, here's the interesting part:After 5 years of marriage to her, I was finally able to put together enough money to purchase the equipment I needed to create and record the music that I have heard in my head and my heart for so many years. I slaved away for a year, writing and recording to produce a cd. I learned during that process NOT to use my wife as a sounding board! She loves music, but I would ask her to listen to a partially finished piece, and she would respond negatively. At first this was a further source of conflict until I realized that she simply did not have to ability to hear "potential" or hear what i was imagining would be the finished product!I think this is true of most people! We want our friends and loved ones to hear the 2nd draft of a song with just guitar and vocal, and expect them to hear "hit single" when most of them, frankly can't listen to the radio and discern the lead guitar from the bass! So here's the payoff - at least the initial one. Because, I had been told my whole life that I was crazy for thinking about this, I started to believe it myself. And when my first cd was finished, I didn't give my mother a copy. Just didn't feel strong enough in the conviction of my dream to hear her negative reaction. So one day, my daughter was in her car, and my mother saw that she had a copy of my cd (my kids have been a HUGE support). She popped it into her cd player and apparently listened to it over and over and over. Then she called me. She was sobbing!! She said that she thought it would be "pretty good", but that she hadn't thought it would be "great". She said she was impressed also with the DISCIPLINE that it must have required.So, even though my wife and my mother may not still completely understand, they have become more supportive of it - but only because I persisted! There is no one who has achieved success in any field who has not been told by those who love them that they are crazy. That they should quit. That what they dream is not only impossible but that they are wrong to even want it! Resistance is so co-existent with striving, that if you're not getting any, you're probably not heading in the direction of your dreams!!!!!Take that resistance as a positive sign, and keep moving forward! And if you need a shot of positive or persistence or a bit of "damn-the-torpedos" let me recommend something in addition to these forums:Movies:RudyIron WillForrest GumpBooks/Tapes/CD's:Anything by Denis WaitelyAnything by Zig ZieglerAnything by the guy who wrote "The Greatest Salesman in the World" (name escapes me)Anything by Tony RobbinsAnything by Earl NightingaleLove this forum, love my newfound support system. Happy New Year to all of you, and as Winston Churchill said:"Never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never quit!"

teamgreen · Post by **teamgreen** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:19 pm

LHMias: So glad you joined the forum and started this thread. It has obviously struck a chord with all who have read it. My husband and I just posted our first thread to this forum a few days ago and already we have found some kindred spirits. One of the first things that was mentioned in response to our post was how great it must be to have a spouse that shares the same passion. Yes, it truly is a blessing, but we, as a team, also have the same feelings that many have expressed here. WE are also an island, in a very small community where it’s hard not to have people ask about our projects, dreams, etc. and then give us the cold shoulder because it’s all we want to talk about. Folks don’t seem to visit much, probably because they don’t understand why the guitars have the best seat in the house and why they have to don ninja-like skills just to avoid getting tangled in our death-trap of cords from guitars, computers, keyboards, amps, mic, etc. It’s definitely nice to have each other for support, but many people shy away from us for just that exact reason.I can’t imagine not being with someone who shares the same goals and obsession about music. Reading the posts in this thread has helped me realize just what a great gift that is. We are just recently active to the forums too, but we’ve been following them quietly for quite some time now and I can honestly say that you will not find a more supportive group of thoughtful and talented individuals that truly care about the success of others. They will cheer for you, cry with you, offer support and encouragement and share their experiences and ideas for becoming the best songwriter/musician/producer that you can be. That’s why we love this forum. The people here, including the TAXI staff and screeners, are allies in an otherwise dog-eat-dog industry. There is much to be learned from them all. I hope you feel welcome here and that you will continue to share your passion. You are not alone.MJ