Do non-fowards make a you a better writer?

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?It's no surprise and no big deal that there's room for me to improve or that I didn't interpret the listing correctly. Tiger Woods still takes "golf lessons", why shouldn't I be open minded to the legions of individuals with more insight than I?Thanks to Taxi, I had music on network television a good number times in the last few months, yet I got two submitted songs recently returned on a listing for drama cues. One doesn't have anything to do with the other. I wound up submitted "crime" drama music because the listing mentioned dark and moody or something similar. Although the critique didn't say much in the negative beyond "not on target", I can reasonably speculate that they were looking for emotional drama. They didn't specifically say "crime" drama and so I read too much into the listing by making too much of the dark and moody stuff, turning it more into suspense/mystery... should have kept it simple and just done basic emotional drama cues. So, that's how I react. No big deal but I do my best not to make the same mistake again.BTW, early critiques that mostly dealt with my music, not my listing reading skills, pretty much exclusively helped me evolve from "out-of-date" New Age to something that's much more current, much more useful. Having a closed mind would have just resulted in lots of returns and ultimately lots of frustration.DaveI think my biggest problem lies in the fact that my listing interpretation is on target, (that's what the screeners always tell me), but since I'm pitching to someone like Alan Jackson or Kenny Chesney....I don't always have a 'feel' for what those guys REALLY want. I can write a country song but whether that song will appeal to those artists (and the screeners who know what they like to sing) is the hardest part to figure out.

[jeffe]

Some of the things that make you a better writer.Education.Practice.Failure (Though I choose not to use that word).The following is one of my favourite snippets, and It's something I live by when trying to achieve.Good old Thomas Edison and the Light bulb.He was asked by a newspaper "How does it feel to fail 700 times trying to invent a practical filament for an electric light?"He answered "I have not failed, not even once. However, I have proven that 700 different ways won't work. When I eliminate all the other ways that won't work, I will find the way that works."Now that's the kind of positive attitude I like.

[Casey H]

Quote:I don't think non-forwards make you a better writer. I think it is the critique feedback that gets you motivated to be better, go out and research, abandon old songs that won't work, and write new songs.... ArkJackYes, it's not the non-forwards themselves. It's the critique feedback. This is true anytime you pitch to the industry and get any feedback. Most of the time, outside of TAXI, you get no feedback, but occasionally publishers will tell you something about why they didn't sign your song. People take the feedback one of two ways: They work hard to get better -or- they get frustrated and give up. Casey

[Casey H]

Quote: I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song. Hi J... Don't forget basic probabilities. Yes, there are the occasional big hits that many A&R folks overlooked. But you shouldn't use the one in thousands "miracle" as a model. You need to go with the odds. If multiple, respectable, professionals give you the same feedback and you decide not to address the issues because of those rare occasions like you mentioned, you may just be deceiving yourself. There is nothing wrong with deciding to stick to your guns and stay with what you have as long as you truly understand the big potential downside. I've certainly done it, for better or for worse. But, my goal is not to get a song cut by a Nashville artist.BTW, Congrats on that recent review! Sounds like you have a song with very good potential there!Warm regards, Casey

[jchitty]

Quote: Quote: I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song. Hi J... Don't forget basic probabilities. Yes, there are the occasional big hits that many A&R folks overlooked. But you shouldn't use the one in thousands "miracle" as a model. You need to go with the odds. If multiple, respectable, professionals give you the same feedback and you decide not to address the issues because of those rare occasions like you mentioned, you may just be deceiving yourself. There is nothing wrong with deciding to stick to your guns and stay with what you have as long as you truly understand the big potential downside. I've certainly done it, for better or for worse. But, my goal is not to get a song cut by a Nashville artist.BTW, Congrats on that recent review! Sounds like you have a song with very good potential there!Warm regards, CaseyOkay, points taken. Thanks, Casey. I am excited about the review.

[jchitty]

Jeffe, I like your comment about Edison and the lightbulb...I think that sums it all up. It's better to look at 'failures' as different ways that 'don't work.' I don't want to sound like someone in 'Guidepost' magazine, but I think that if you look at things in a positive way rather than a negative way, it'll get you much further.Arkjack, yeah that first foward is a real confidence booster...when you get those, you know you're doing something right.Upeters, yeah, if you let rejection stop you, then you probably aren't a person who's meant to write songs. If it motivates you, then you probably have songwriting skills. I had instances where I thought my song was good, and then I'd look at it again and realize it wasn't so good. Then I've written a song straight through in fifteen minutes....it was a like some inspiration sent from up about...it just flowed....I don't get many songs like that...they are very few, but they are probably my best ones.

[jbeck]

I kind of compare returns to dating ...When it comes to dating, if you know what you're looking for and you go after that, then there's going to be poor pitiful souls you just have to turn down..not that they are terrible people or that they do not appeal to you in some way..you just know what you want.. and Timing is everything..When it comes to music and forwards vs returns..I would say if you look at a critique as a key to make your music that much better, you just put yourself ahead of the game knowing that maybe at some point you're going to find the right match with a producer/music library.. An Outside critique can be a powerful tool because it is coming from an outsider, someone you're not acquainted with..They are looking at it from a musical perspective...so we shouldn't take it personal..

[grandmatarkin]

Non-forwards make me a better killer ...

[geo]

Hey guys, good string, I have to say yes ..... and no .OK, mostly yes. Although sometimes I disagree with some of the comments, it helps when I'm preparing to record any of my songs, I try to incorporate things I know they look for (prominant hook, appearing early in the song, etc) because, let's face it, we have to deal with them. Where I say no is I am still writing and producing my music for me, I haven't completed my transfer from writing music I want to perform to a more professional approach, writing for specific listings/genres so sometimes the parts or songs the screeners have the most problem with from a commercial POV are my favorites. Conversely songs which I wrote as a simple little XYZ song are the ones which have been received the best by screeners. But since I have been a Taxi member my songs have gotten stronger so mostly yes, they make you better... Geo