"No One" - Ready for production?

[Casey H]

Hi PatrickReally enjoyed... very cool, emotional vibe. If you said your goal was anything but to record the song on your own CD... e.g. market to other artists or even film/TV in some cases, I'd be more concerned that there isn't a clarity of story here. There are a lot of commonly used lines and phrases (watch out for too many cliches) but they don't come together into a tight cohesive picture. The verses could better support the chorus.That being said, this is a "vibe" track and the vibe carries it very well. Is your only goal to sell this on your own CD? Please don't think I don't like it. I'm evaluating it as a "song" in the sense of getting interest from those with high standards in conventional songwriting.Best of luck,Casey

[partyofone]

Hi Casey,My primary goal is to use this for my own CD but for every song I write or co-write I'd like to use it in film/t.v. also. I can see what you mean about the verses not directly supporting the chorus and not having a tight story. I do have a checklist of points I try to hit including many things from some of the songwriting classes I've taken, but maybe on this tune the imagery blinded me a bit to the lack of narrative. (I probably am also forgetting to tell the story I already have in my head.) I guess I don't imagine my songs being cut by any artist in the standard sense but I'd also hate to limit placement opportunities or miss out on a chance to hook a listener with not only a good melody but also a good lyric. Thanks for the feedback though! I may reevaluate these lyrics some and see if I can add some cohesion without losing the vibe.

[heinsite]

hi patrick--yes, whichever is your title/hook line, i think we need to hear it more--and condense it to one or the other idea.i did NOT comment on the entire lyric, because frankly, i heard this as a pop song, and thus not needing by today's standards too much "fixing", and i was hearing this as a draft, right?as i said up there, i get the vibe, and that's more what today's radio stuff is all about (ever listen to a Killer's song...man...and i actually like most of their stuff! after 50 listens in the car.but i digress..yeah, flipping verses is very common, just step back and try it, i do it now on almost all my tunes, sometimes yes, sometimes no, but it's cheap and can be very effective!hey man, by the way, based on what i hear, i'd be prepared to get EVERY tune ready for the highest of bars, and i think actually that's what you are after. i don't know a "songwriter" who doesn't want the most folks on the planet to hear their stuff--no ego--well maybe a bit, but if you got a message and a heart and soul to the song, why not? i don't know you well, but i get from your vibe i aint telling you anything you don't already know!still dig the tune, great luck! wh

[watksco]

Quote:Through the dark night you see itBut in a flash of light it fades and goes awayBefore you lead yourself astrayLet me help you find your way...Much better!

[ideascapes]

Patrick,Really good sketch here and the thread is terrific so far in bringing up some excellent points to ponder. I'm going to follow up on Casey's comment ("The verses could better support the chorus."). If your title/hook is really, "No One (Knows You Like I Do)," I would expect the verses to talk more about how well you know the subject--personality details, helpful insights, tendencies, strengths, flaws, etc. As Warren pointed out, in a pop setting, that's probably not critical and you do have some lyrical lines that imply you can help and the melody/harmony is good.Vince

[Casey H]

Hi PatFilm/TV is a lot about vibe but the people you need to impress (ALL the gatekeepers including screeners) still look for good 'songs' as a whole.It's not that you need to turn this into a narrative. But you want to avoid a lyric that seems like a bunch of cliches thrown together and not a lot of clear purpose. Don't lose your edginess in any re-write!You also may need to take it down a semi-tone or two to stay with the higher notes vocally. Mine is just one opinion...Best, Casey

[partyofone]

warren,I see what you're saying about the hook. I actually started out calling the song "No One Knows You" then thought about calling it "Like I Do" but didn't like that 2nd one as a title. But No One doesn't really tie in with that last tag line of chorus.And the song is a first draft... of course I always hope I won't have too much work on the re-write but who am I kidding ha ha. And you're right that I want my songs to be as strong as possible in all regards. I'll probably have to sit on this one a few days and come back to it to get a better perspective though. My ultimate goal is to vince, yeah those are good points on what a listener might expect to hear in the verse to support the chorus idea. it seems obvious to me now as I read your post but I completely didn't see that as I was writing it. I actually started out trying to follow Jason Blume's advice of using imagery and details. I imagined a specific place where everything was happening and started describing events as they were happening. But somehow using that approach I wasn't getting where I wanted to go. Thanks!Casey, yes I can see how any weak point of a piece could be an excuse pass on it.. so why not make every song strong in all aspects. Funny thing on the vocal.. I was in voice lesson couple of weeks ago hitting full on tenor high C's... this tune I'm hitting G's but it's still harder than doing it in a song vs. an exercise. I actually already lowered the song a whole step from E to D and would hate to lower again so I'm going to experiment with nailing my vocal coordinations better in the chorus.I appreciate all the great insight thus far and I have a lot to ponder here so thanks!

[heckxx]

Sounds really good! If anything, I think maybe there's a slight lack of a great hook in the chorus. I think I like the verses and pre-choruses better. Would definitely want to hear this with drums and all -Jeff

[partyofone]

Thanks for listening Jeff... That's interesting to hear that the verse and p/c sounds stronger to you because I'm really in love with the chorus melody. I was hoping to write a song that would stand on its own acoustically but I think a full production will be needed to take it where it is in my head.