Need some Country feedback

[aubreyz]

Country --- who'da thunk it. We wrote a country song today for a listing, and I'd appreciate some input from those who are more experienced in this genre. This is a first draft-- hot off the hard disk-- piano vocal only... so some of the dead space will be filled with steel/fiddle lines. For now I'm looking at lyrics/melody. Here's the link-- and thanks as always!Graduation DayHe'd only been 18 for thirteen daysBut it felt more like a hundred yearsSince he started first gradeThe robe he wore made him look so dignifiedHe wore the tie for his mommaBut his tennis shoes were untiedThey called his name, he shook their handAnd his Momma cried for the little boy who had turned into a manIt was graduation dayTime so quickly slips awaysmiles and tearshopes and fearsnew frontiers to faceSomewayIt was graduation dayLife was on the wayHow could 20 years go by so fastHis oldest son was next in lineHe wanted his little boy backNow he knows why his momma cried on his graduation dayHe thought it was the tennis shoesBut the memories were to blameThere he goes, are those flip flopsYeah that's my boy, a chip off the old blockIt was graduation dayTime so quickly slips awaysmiles and tearshopes and fearsnew frontiers to faceSomewayIt was graduation dayLife was on the wayHe got the call, a little past 2 amHis Daddy's voice was weak on the other endHe knew right away, there was something wrongJust two words were said... she's goneIt was graduation dayLife so quickly slips awaysmiles and tearsfrom all the yearsWere written on her faceBy faithIt was graduation dayAn angel's on the way

[aubreyz]

Quote:Hey, Aub. I might be of some help because I write mostly country music...that's my area of expertise. I will list my website for you. You might interested in giving your lyrics that "Nashville" sound. If you're going to clear the Nashville high bar, this might give you an idea of what those listings are looking for. I've gotten mostly 8's, (some 9's) and a few 7's on songs these songs, and 'almost a foward" (9's on marketibility) but one of the reasons two of them weren't fowarded was because they were a little off tarket for the listing. My general opinion of your song is that your lyrics are REALLY good, something that might clear the Nashville high bar if you put the right 'treatment' to your music, meaning, having this song demoed at a place in Nashville rather than doing it yourself. If you listen to CMT, you'll know what I mean.....country tunes have that distinctive "Nashville" sound, and the only way you might get that is to use a demo service there. You've pointed out that you do intend to add fiddle, etc. Your lyrics tell a good story, and they are very cohesive, and you've got a twist at the end of your story. Your song is the kind of storyline Southerners love to hear. I have to say that you probably write better stories than I do, and I pride myself on writing good country music. I live in Alabama, so I really know my stuff as far as that goes.If you do decide to have your song demoed in Nashville, and you want the name of my demo service, I'll list it in the future. Also, as you know, it's always wise to have your lyrics critiqued professionally before embarking on a full demo production. You might not like the Nashville sound...however, that seems to be what gets played in the commercial markets....fiddle, steel, mandolin, etc. I think Matto once said that for a song to be considered truly country, it has to have all the 'furniture.' BTW, I owe some members here some PMs, but I've been very busy lately, so I'll reply as soon as I can. Thanks Chits! I listened to some of your songs, and you've got the goods! I'm a native Texan, so I have some southern perspective. The funny thing is I don't really like much country music, but I have always admired the writing. Over the years, I've produced several country projects and even shopped some songs in Nashville that I recorded for an artist. That was about 15 years ago and the songs weren't up to par (I hadn't really studied what makes a country song work), but I was asked several times what Nashville studio I had used. I'll probably have to pull in a vocalist to get that Nashville thing going, but I think we can get there... if not, I may hook up with your demo connection.There's some cleaning up to do with the lyrics, but it is encouraging to hear that the story is working. Thanks again.Aub

[jchitty]

Okay, Aub. You'll notice that I deleted my link and post last night...but I'm glad you got my link....I still have tons of work to do on my page, and I'm still not totally comfy with posting it in public, but I wanted to answer your post anyway....briefly give you the link.I'd really look into teaming up with someone who is really experienced in creating country melodies on this one.....your melody needed a little work, sounded just a bit wooden in places, but your lyrics are really great. I don't think I'd change anything about the lyrics if I were you....you seem to have the kind of song that TAXI 'would get.' Believe me, I've been pitching to these high bar lyrics for months now, and while, I've almost cleared the bar, I never quite get there. TAXI is very picky about what works....they will literally pick apart every bit of story that doesn't flow....if you're going to make changes in the lyrics, I'd only do some minor tweaking, but that's only my opinion. I seriously think your lyrics are THAT good from a commercial standpoint. Of course, critiques are good too.....if you do have an issue with the lyrics, TAXI will suggest some changes. Me not being a professional critiquer, I may be missing something they can refine. I can understand the deal about country music...not many people care for it...it's definitely an acquired taste, your Texas roots give you some inroads into the psyche of it. This might sound biased, but I believe you definitely have to live in certain areas to write the good stuff......yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but most good country writers were born in the Southeast or the Southwest.Anyway, good luck! Over and out now.

[aubreyz]

Chits... I deleted the link from the quote from your other post...Thanks for the feedback. The object for now is not to get this song placed as a finished product, but as a song for an artist. If I go the finished product route, then another vocalist etc, will be necessary. It also was just an experiment in writing style to see if country listings would be a viable goal. I made a few minor tweaks to the lyrics and melody-- and recut the vocal -- it's not even close to authentic IMHO (even though the Southern drawl is my natural dialect, I've worked pretty hard to get rid of a lot of it, and it seems very put on to me now... though without it my vocals sound much to pop).The melody may still not cut it yet -- we'll see.We'll be adding instrumentation late tonight and tomorrow if all goes well. Here's where the song is now:Graduation Day -- Second take

[jchitty]

Quote:Chits... I deleted the link from the quote from your other post...Thanks for the feedback. The object for now is not to get this song placed as a finished product, but as a song for an artist. If I go the finished product route, then another vocalist etc, will be necessary. It also was just an experiment in writing style to see if country listings would be a viable goal. I made a few minor tweaks to the lyrics and melody-- and recut the vocal -- it's not even close to authentic IMHO (even though the Southern drawl is my natural dialect, I've worked pretty hard to get rid of a lot of it, and it seems very put on to me now... though without it my vocals sound much to pop).The melody may still not cut it yet -- we'll see.We'll be adding instrumentation late tonight and tomorrow if all goes well. Here's where the song is now:Graduation Day -- Second takeAub, I think country is definitely a viable goal for you though. For someone coming from a totally different genre, you've penned good country tune. I listened to your second take, and your melody seems a bit more fleshed out to me now.......whatever tweaking you did moved you in the right direction. Now, your 'Graduation Day' chorus/hook stands out more....nice lift on the chorus and more contrast between the verses and chorus.I think you have something here....what you have, not being an A&R rep I really don't know....but I can hear a song that would appeal to country music fans...you got the story, you got the emotional tugs to the heartstrings and you got the 'twist' in the story, something really hard to come up with. Since you're not considering the finished product route now, it's at least something to consider in the future. Glad your doing some instrumentation on your own as well...it's good to experiment, and really, your voice sounds fine. As pointed out last night, my only prob was the melody (which you've progressed on)....and the fact that you might want to give some Nashville treatment to the song, and you've explained your reasons for doing what you feel is best for now.Keep us posted about further details. I'll be cheering you on...if you can get a foward for one of the country high bar listings, you'll be ahead of any of us.

[matto]

Hey Aub,Country is a tough nut to crack...particularly since it's so deceptively simple musically, and the lyrics, when done right, seem to just flow like a conversation.Here's my feedback (and I know you appreciate honest feedback , so here goes...):Melody:IMHO the melody is too meandering and halting for the genre, it does sound more like a prog rock melody. It's not simple, catchy and repetitive like the stuff you'd hear on country radio today. Too many stops, and not memorable and "structured" enough.Chords:The progression seems to complicated and too dominated by minor chords. If you listen to country radio a lot, you'll notice that you'll rarely hear a progression that moves from minor to minor. This also doesn't easily settle into an obvious key, something almost all successful country songs do. This song by contrast is relatively ambiguous, tonally speaking. It also seems way too "sad" sounding (due to all the minor chords) for a song about graduation...it sounds like someone died right at the top ...not it the last verse. I think the song would be much more effective if the melody and harmony projected a reflective, yet confident and positive mood. Cause ultimately even your last verse lyric projects this sentiment.Lyric:This type of lyric is a staple in Nashville, but very difficult to pull off convincingly cause the chorus has to seem like a completely natural and logical consequence of three separate "vignettes" told in the three verses. Or the whole thing seems contrived. There's alot of good stuff going on in this lyric, for one thing it's quite visual. But ultimately, to me, the idea of equating death (or in other words the afterlife) to graduation seems too forced. I underestand what you're going for, but to me it doesn't seem like an exact or logical analogy, but too much of a stretch. It also forces you to change your last chorus quite substantially to make the whole thing work (sort of ), which is often a sign that the concept is too much of a stretch in the first place.Performance:Really starting to nail the drawl on the second take. I think if the melody and chords on this were more "country" your performance would be quite credible and probably good enough so you wouldn't have to hire an outside vocalist when demoing it.Anyway hope this helps!matto

[Casey H]

Morn AubFirst I want to say I admire your willingness to put things out there for folks to hear and comment on, for better or worse & your good attitude on taking in the feedback. It isn't easy and even though most of us have become pretty thick-skinned, it takes a strong person to do it. Kudos... I listened and here are my thoughts: First, I think the melody has a lot of pretty elements. You mentioned that your goal was to place a song with a country artist. All I can say is WHY WHY WHY? Why would you venture into what is probably the hardest thing when you have so many other good projects going on? I don't hear this as a country song, though I am not very country-music savvy. Why not take it another direction- a more adult oriented thing? I'm trying to think of what the genre name is but my 2nd cuppa joe hasn't kicked in yet. With some tweaks, musically, there is a really good song in there. It IS harder to push a very dark song, so you could brighten it up a bit while keeping it emotional and serious. Some of the other suggestions made on the chord changes might help.An emotional piano ballad a la Elton John (for example) could be a good one to have for a film/TV pitch. I know this is a change in direction, but sometimes it's better to go with where a song takes you.Lyrically, this might be a tough sell in many genres. You don't hear this type of "slice of life" storyline too much in pop music... (e.g. Cats in the Cradle, Circle Game, etc.)... I don't know how committed you are to these lyrics. They are VERY good lyrics, but not very commercial, IMHO.So, if you really want to write it as country, I like Chits' suggestion that you co-write with someone who has country experience. Alternatively, do a re-write with or without a co-writer to target a different genre.All the best! Casey

[aubreyz]

Man... that's why I like this forum so much -- quality feedback!Casey--- answering one of your questions might clear some things up.Quote:All I can say is WHY WHY WHY? Why would you venture into what is probably the hardest thing when you have so many other good projects going on?There are several reasons:1. I was never able to put down the Rubik's cube until I figured it out --- I am well aware that country is one of the hardest genre's to crack, and that's what makes it so appealing. As a lyricist, there are things you can do in country that won't work anywhere else.2. I have a long term goal of providing song demo services. Though I've not posted any work product, and even keep my company name private, a big part of what I do for a living is creating music in all different styles - but the Jingle and Advertising markets are much less demanding as far as production quality and realism. It's been a while since I've produced any serious country, other than jingles and replacement instrumentals -- So... I want to toy around with the production values necessary to produce authentic country.Also, even though I admit to not actually liking much country--- my wife loves it, so I hear it a lot. Some of the comments about melody and chord structure are very valid--- though for a first try, I'm totally happy to be in the ballbark---(even if it's a foul ball).Matto--- I agree overall, but there is a lot of diversity in today's country-- as a general rule, minor minor progressions are not by any means the most common, but there are many examples of country hits that have more complex chord structure than this... still doesn't mean that this particular structure is right--- the melody and structure need some work.Lyrically--- Graduation/death may be too much of a stretch, but here in the Bible belt-- I've heard the analogy several times.Though I'm not responding to each comment in detail-- they are all very appreciated, and have given me a lot to consider.Regards,Aub

[horacejesse]

Quote:This might sound biased, but I believe you definitely have to live in certain areas to write the good stuffPlease. And you just happen to live in Nashville. You don't have to live in Switzerland to write a good polka or the south to write "the good stuff," in country.More people in the south listen to country music, that is all there is to your theory. So sure, more southerners write country. Plus Nashville accepts you a lot easier if you are from the south. That is called Regional bias, and Nashville has a lot more of it than LA.I know you are a good gal and was not trying to offend anyone, but with all due respect, I believe you are full of malarky on this.

[aubreyz]

Ran,Both you, Matto and others pointed out some things I was already concerned about---Your lyrical points are well noted. The hundred years was meant to contrast the perspective of kid who thinks it took forever, and the parent who realizes life is going by too fast. More clarity is needed to stick that point.The tennis shoes, well, here's the story. Teenager all dressed up in cap and gown, tie--- but wearing tennis shoes. My own son did that. At his baccalaureate, he was decked out and dignified down to the ankles, but wore bright blue Chuck Taylors. It cracked me up.The multiple he's in verse 2 I already have on my list to fix. So the previous graduate, now the father, knows why his mom cried-- though when he was a kid, he figured she was disappointed because he wore tennis shoes. His kid's wearing flip flops in the same way-- a chip off the old block.Gotta make that clearer. Better imagery.Probably won't have a chance to fix it all before the listing (tomorrow), but I'll get a very nice form email telling me it wasn't quite there and a critique to help fix it up-- (it's probably too slow for the listing anyway).The prechorus melody, and the minor section of the chorus were already on my list to look at too. The chorus doesn't lift enough, and there may be a better way to use the graduation day analogy. Honestly, I first posted this thinking it probably didn't have much potential... that it was too hokey to work. But maybe there is something here worth refining.I have several complete songs, and a dozen or so partial songs in this genre that I may pursue.... or not.Like I was reading in the Joke of the Minute---How does someone with ADD change a light bulb...Let's go ride bikes!Regards,Aub