Final Update?? to "A Bit of Edge".

[ibanez468guit]

Pulling out an older tune (some of you may remember having heard this before) that never got the nod on previous electronic/orchestral listings. So I re-bounced some better sounding individual tracks (I think ), & remixed everything ta' see what I could come up with. I know ya' don't have anything to compare it to, but lemme' know what ya' think anyway! Here's that listing again:

MODERN ELECTRONIC/ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTALS wanted by an established Music Licensing company who provides content for major clients including Toyota, AOL, Google, Visa, Xbox, Adidas and more. Mid to Uptempos only - no ambient or chill-out tracks, please! High energy and an engaging blend of Electronica and Orchestral elements are needed.

ibanez468

"A Bit of Edge" http://www.box.net/shared/odm2ca38y9

[orest]

NICE!
I think the production and the piece is excellent! Very well done!

I would like to hear a bit more aggressive sampled synths though.
Some modern commercials use this type of aggressive music. Maybe you could keep this one and make an alternative version.

This is my opinion..

[devin]

Hey Bruce...I find this song "engaging" as per the requirement...nice!

My thoughts:
- should be slammin' more with the low bass early on. Hit 'em early? The part about 2/3 through is starting to cook...but need some more fundamental in there too, I think?
- first melody line reminds me of "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" quite a bit. Might be a show stopper? I dunno...just what I picked up on.

My $0.02 only, of course. Wish I could pull this style of song together!

[mazz]

Bruce,

I think this is headed in the right direction. The piano melody is cool and moody.

A couple of things struck me:

1. The orchestra doesn't come in for some time so it doesn't sound like an Electro/Orchestral piece right away, which could hurt it's chances if it does get forwarded because the client probably won't listen as long into it as a screener will (the screeners have to listen to the whole piece as I understand). The client will probably give you 10 seconds to make your pitch, if there's no orchestra in the first few seconds and they're looking for orchestra, then they'll never get to it. Start with your big hit that you do before the choir comes in, make your play with the big stuff and then break it down to the piano for a "B" section, come back in and end big. Writing for this kind of thing almost involves "backwards thinking", or "reverse builds". Form-wise, you need your hook right up front. At least until you land the gig.

2. The panning on the orchestra when it first comes in doesn't sound "orchestral" in the sense that it doesn't sound like an orchestra would sound in a room. I think you need to have things panned so the orchestra still sounds like an orchestra and not an effect. Things fill out later when the choir comes in, but I think you'll get a bigger sound and something that sounds more like the John Powell/Bourne films stuff, which is one of the templates for this kind of stuff.

The compositional elements are all there, I just think they need to be re-ordered for maximum impact and production wise make the orchestra sound more natural.

Cool stuff!!

Mazz

[fusilierb]

Cool piece! I agree with Mazz, for this listing, its taking too long to get to the orchestral elements. To me, towards the late middle of the piece, you've got a cymbal swell that leads into a nice rocking run to the end. For this listing, I consider starting there and running it to the end, then on that final electronic delay, you can bring in some of your earlier elements as a kind of short development section, then rinse and repeat and I think you've got a real shot.

Nice grooves!
B

[ibanez468guit]

Hey Orest!

Thanks for the listen! I'll see what I can do about the synths. These are synths that come with Sonar, so those patterns are the "one-note" held arpeggio-type. Maybe I can add some distortion to them ta' dirty 'em up a bit? Would that make them more aggressive?

Devin & Mazz, I'll see about doin' a re-arrangement based on the suggestions. Devin, thought I'd go easy on the heavy bass this time around, as it seems to have not served me well my last 5 submissions. Thought I'd thin it out a little more this time around. I'll see what I can do about that.

Mazz, don't know exactly what I can do about the orchestra. Thought I had everything panned according to the seating layout for EW. Maybe I should bring things in a little closer? Is that what you're suggesting?

- first melody line reminds me of "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" quite a bit. Might be a show stopper? I dunno...just what I picked up on. I Wish I could pull this style of song together!

Purely coincidence my man, purely coincidence (I've never really even seen that movie. A few small bits & pieces, here & there, but nothing long enough to make me remember that melody). And if you really, really, really wanted to, I'm sure you could. Hell man, half the time, I don't even know what I'm doin'. I'm just flyin' on a wing & a prayer it seems. I guess at times, it sounds like it too!

ibanez468

[mazz]

RE Panning: EW comes with the instruments miked in the places in the orchestra that they normally sit so it comes "pre panned". If you run everything centered, it should come up ready to go. That being said, I often sneak the first violins out to the left a bit more and move the seconds ever so slightly right. That's assuming that you use the 18VLNS for the 1sts and the 11VLNS for the seconds.

I think the chart that comes with the library is to show you where the orchestra usually sits and not necessarily meant as a guide for doing your own panning.

Basically I'd start with everything dead center and then widen or narrow to taste.

HTH,

Mazz

[k o star]

Ibanez...
Good clean production & very cool piece here...
I enjoyed the orchestra melodies alot... 1 thing I would like to hear more are more electronica sweeps...
I feel that there is still alot of space to play ard with in the mix... to entice the listener's ears even more...
Good start!

Kel

[ibanez468guit]

OK, got an update workin' here. Based on some of the previous posts, tried a few different things, as suggested.

1. Whole new arrangement
2. Made some panning adjustments - mainly strings
3. A bit more aggressive on the one synth loop - it definitely needed it, IMO
4. Tried to bump up the bass a bit

Work a little better? Lemme' know!

"A Bit of Edge_New Arrangement" http://www.box.net/shared/1id0n61bz1

ibanez468

[mazz]

Sounds better, a lot better. The arrangement brings in the orchestra sooner, although for an electro orchestral piece I still think the intro should be shorter, but that's probably a matter of taste. My only concern is the 8 bar intro doesn't bring enough interest after the first 4 bars and you might lose the client.

The repeated high brass notes sound a bit synthy to my ears. Are you using a short articulation from EW? If not, you might want to try that. Also, repeated notes with samples are often problematic because it starts to sound too much like the same sample. In my experience, even with the RR articulations, it's hard to get repeated notes to work really well. You might consider changing the middle note of the 3 to go down a whole step. I've often employed this strategy when the repeated notes weren't working. Also you might consider doing a slight velocity crescendo for each set of three notes, which might alter things enough to take the synthy vibe off of it. I can't remember if you picked up First Call Horns, but you might consider adding a lead trumpet from a pop brass library, it might add a bit more punch to things. With a lot of film scores, particularly those recorded in LA, you have incredible players that are able to go from a classical "legit" playing style all the way to screaming lead playing, which is something you don't find everywhere. So our ears are attuned to that kind of flexibility in these kinds of pieces (Bourne Ultimatum, John Powell's stuff, etc.). The thing with these orchestral libraries, is that they are sampled with more "legit" playing and don't often translate to the kind of rhythmically aggressive and syncopated stuff you're doing here. A nice pop lead player might just make this thing "pop"

Great work Bruce.

Mazz