A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by onelight24 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:20 pm

mazz wrote:I feel and see that there is greater and greater demand for at least some live instrument in a composition, particularly for orchestral music. That alone will "thin the herd" a bit because there's bunches and bunches of composers out there that have never even experienced a real orchestra or real flute or whatever. It's not enough to be able to compose for samples, it's about translating those concepts out so that a live musician can play those parts. That communication requires training and knowledge.
Very interesting article to say the least, & yes highly informative! Thank you Elliot for posting it!

I find the above quote by Mazz very interesting. Mazz you are of course, echoing the author of the article when he says:

Whether as a result of the educational system for filmmakers, new filmmaking/editing technology,
better sample libraries, lower budgets, a new generation of directors brought up on electronic sounds,
or the simple fact of huge numbers of “composers” in the marketplace who can’t begin to write for live
instruments and instead rely completely on electronic sounds to create scores, many of today’s
filmmakers seem perfectly happy with synthetic, electronic scores.



Prior to getting involved with attempting to compose for production music, all I did was compose for real live musicians, professional, or otherwise! What I've found & have asserted on several occasions, as I've entered this 'game', is that one who is quite skilled as an engineer, really knows their gear & has a lot of it, will be seen as a really great or good composer, however the reverse, simply does not the exist! I have found the transition to composing with & for samples challenging to say the least, mainly because my engineering skills, & the gear I use still require immense work or improvement.
A marriage of these two idioms is certainly required these days, production & compositional skills, with the emphasis being on production skills however. I believe this to be a$$ backwards! We like to believe that it is always about the music, & yet clearly it is not!

It is interesting how people like Alex North, who scored Spartacus was a theatre composer prior to scoring for film. No electronics just pencil, pad & score. He was the first to step out, and be unique, implementing jazz or atonal elements into his scores. Art first!

John Williams' intent was to be a concert pianist (artist first)! That's how he got his gig as a studio pianist. He then stumbled into tv & film firstly as an arranger, then score composer ( more pencil, pad & score)!

These guys were artists first, the intent was the music, & the music only!

I suppose we are forced to undervalue ourselves as artists in order to survive the business aspects of music. I believe the above mentioned composer were all about the skill of composing, & nothing else! Pushing the envelope towards new idioms in film music, makes them artists in my opinion!

I believe we've forgotten this very important aspect of our collective music making! If we want to make it about the music & bring back honor to ourselves as composer's, we should always use live musicians firstly, & secondly we should return to who we are, which is artists!

Just a few on my humble thoughts!


Thanks again Elliot for posting!

Cheers,
Vincent!

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by kclements » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:41 pm

I read this post the other day that seems to fit exactly in this discussion: http://www.scorecastonline.com/2011/01/ ... ssion.html

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by mazz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:55 pm

One thing that I think we're overlooking here is that there are two distinct things:

1. Being an artist

2. Making a living being an artist

We are all artists because we call ourselves that. There's no license to become an artist like there are for doctors or lawyers, in order to be an artist, one only has to hang up a shingle that says "Artist" on it.

Those artists that are successful in the business, the artists like you mention, Vinnie, are also master craftsmen. One thing that struck me when I hung out with top game composers this past week was the extremely high level of craft they have achieved. Many of them write with pencil and paper before applying their writings to their electronic mockups. I have spoken with these composers and they all say their mockups have to sound fantastic in order to give their clients the best representation of how the music will sound before their clients spend hundreds of thousands of dollars recording the music. I think those are some pretty smart clients!! So even these successful, well paid artists have to master the craft of presenting their music electronically, even if they are orchestral composers. Gone are the days of the composer playing a piano sketch for the director and then the next time the director hears the music is on the scoring stage. I think we have to be careful not to diminish the role of craft in this whole thing, it often becomes the thing that sets one artist apart from another.

And yes, engineering is part of the job of a modern composer. Unless one can get that under their control, one will be run over by some extremely talented young composers coming from all over the world. And many of them can also write with paper and pencil. I heard a really great piece of music from a young composer from Germany who used his fellow students for his orchestral piece and built it up track by track. It sounded AMAZING. He had examples of his score up on the screen and it was very sophisticated music and he was talking about being influenced by composers like Arvo Part, so this young man knows his art and is well on his way to being a very fine craftsman as well. I felt so hopeful because his music was so well received by the composer community who voted to put him on the Composer Challenge for the 2011 GDC. That bodes well for live musicians and for folks that pay their dues honing their craft.

As another example: A guy I've known for years and have recently re-connected with has been in SF for years and has composed for films, TV and games. He uses a lot of live instruments mixed with samples. Three of us went to his studio Friday evening and listened to his music and even saw some of the documentary he is scoring (narration and produced by Anjelica Huston). He plays all manner of flutes from bass flute to wooden flutes and even strange dried seaweed flutes along with tons of different percussion instruments. He is fortunate enough to have the budgets to bring in live players, many of whom play regularly for the San Francisco Symphony and record film and game soundtracks at Skywalker Ranch, just north of San Francisco. And to top it all off, besides being a very masterful composer, he is also a very masterful engineer!! So not only can he write the music, he can record and mix it, all in sync with picture. He has mastered his craft and his stuff sounds really, really great.

His name is Tom Disher. He's a great guy and a real artist: http://www.dishermusic.com/

I'm not arguing with anyone, I just don't want to lose sight of the fact that we have to have our business, craft and artistry all aligned and working in harmony to be successful in today's world. No one aspect is greater or lesser than another. It may not be as fun to be in business mode, but for many people, creating a business is as creative as creating a piece of music. If we can create a great piece of music, why can't we apply that same creative energy and purpose to creating a business model and plan?

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by mazz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:04 pm

kclements wrote:I read this post the other day that seems to fit exactly in this discussion: http://www.scorecastonline.com/2011/01/ ... ssion.html

kc

This is great! It really isn't only about the music, it's about the value the composer brings along with the music. Anyone can slap together loops in GarageBand, a professional composer brings an artistic and craftsman-like intention to the act of slapping loops together. That's worth a lot, but potential clients have to be shown the value in it, because that value has been obscured by the noise of all the comPOSERS blindly doing the loop slapping.

People use the same composers over and over again partly because of the music, but a large part of it is the comfort level they feel with that composer personally. The relationship has huge value above and beyond the notes and sounds. We need to change our thinking from "the value of the music" to one of "the value of the relationship with the client and the service we offer above and beyond the music". In a restaurant, if the food is good and the service is so so, the whole experience is diminished, unless one is only there for food alone. But if one is looking for the whole experience, the service is as important as the food and the presentation of the food on the plate.

:P
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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by Dwayne Russell » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:21 pm

mazz wrote:

This is great! It really isn't only about the music, it's about the value the composer brings along with the music. Anyone can slap together loops in GarageBand, a professional composer brings an artistic and craftsman-like intention to the act of slapping loops together. That's worth a lot, but potential clients have to be shown the value in it, because that value has been obscured by the noise of all the comPOSERS blindly doing the loop slapping.


This is true. I'd say then umber of opportunities minus the number of composers that don't know what they are doing equals MORE work for us. Even if they just got out of college doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

But still, NO ONE has produced a single verifiable fact. EVERYONE is guessing.

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by kclements » Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:26 pm

We are all artists because we call ourselves that. There's no license to become an artist like there are for doctors or lawyers, in order to be an artist, one only has to hang up a shingle that says "Artist" on it.
Mazz -

I think you nailed it on the head - and we seem to be on the same page today. I think this article from the same site adds another perspective on your comPOSER nametag.

http://www.scorecastonline.com/2010/06/ ... score.html

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by Dwayne Russell » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:40 pm

kclements wrote:
We are all artists because we call ourselves that. There's no license to become an artist like there are for doctors or lawyers, in order to be an artist, one only has to hang up a shingle that says "Artist" on it.
Mazz -

I think you nailed it on the head - and we seem to be on the same page today. I think this article from the same site adds another perspective on your comPOSER nametag.

http://www.scorecastonline.com/2010/06/ ... score.html

kc

Im not sure what being and artist has to do with this discussion.

We are in the music business. A specific part of it at that. We are not in the artist business. The article in question said that our business was declining. I don't see how being or not being an artist has anything to do with that.

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by onelight24 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:46 pm

Firstly, let me suggest that I appreciate this conversation greatly, and that for the most part I agree with what your asserting Mazz!

However I also believe that we are artist not only because we call ourselves that, yet also because that was our gravitation from birth! Its not likely for you to turn around today & go to med school, or business school for that matter, or for Donald trump to turn around & be a great doctor of medicine, show compassion & help people heal. Mainly because that's not how the respective brains were wired. If you look at Daniel J. Levitin's "This is Your Brain on Music", he claims that Sinatra was a genius in that he had the ability to convey emotion 'beyond description', despite the fact that his phrasing was completely wrong according to the written page! Yet it was fantastically done!

This is what makes an artist in my opinion, the ability to express the otherwise not expressed, the 'not normally expressed'! This is what sets us apart as artists, from the otherwise not artistically inclined!

The author of this article claims this:

So be different. And make sure your music is different. Nobody wants to hear yet another rip of John
Williams, James Horner, Danny Elfman, etc. The days of the “jack of all trades” composer who can
emulate any “famous” style with ease is over – replaced by the new sounds of new composers like
Carter Burwell, John Ottman, Bear McCreary, and others who have made a name and a “sound” for
themselves.

Look inside yourself and find out what really makes you “tick” musically. Stop imitating your favorite
composers and build a style for yourself – a style can and usually is the result of a composer
combining the best elements from a variety of musical influences into something new and original.
Don’t be afraid to experiment and stretch out musically, and be cognizant of the various new styles that
are appearing in film scores and music today.


This is ARTISTRY within a business!


mazz wrote:How did this come about? Because as a group we suck at business.
I believe this is a tremendous struggle for artists, again because of the hardwiring of our brains! I'm not suggesting we cannot learn, just that it would be more difficult for us, right brained people. I am simply reminding us all, of this scientific fact! I believe it difficult to turn a spoon into a fork, its possible, perhaps likely, yet very difficult!

I agree that composer's are master craftsmen, however for me, they are masters of the sonic field & how to manipulate vibration to express sentiments, which tell the brain to release chemicals that say..'wow' that was great, or sad, happy & so on!

The learning curve is steep for composers' today, in honing the production skills, compositional skills, as well as, dare I say it ...business skills!

Good luck to us all!

Cheers,
Vincent!

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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by Len911 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:25 pm

2011 FILM & TV COMPOSER CENSUS (USA) SUMMARY

* 54,000 film and TV titles represented
* 700 pages of data regarding the works of 25,723 composers and songwriters
* The most comprehensive publication of its kind
* Inclusive of American network television, basic and premium cable, plus nationally syndicated programming
* Covers feature films, MOWs, short subjects, documentaries, game shows, talk shows, news and strip shows, as well as all forms of episodic TV
* Research indicates composers represented by at least 55 performing rights organizations (PROs) worldwide
* Thousands of detailed annotations in the “Notes” column
* Produced by a team of 40 research volunteers and advisors over an entire year
* The Census Group did not have the resources necessary to include music from promos, logos, music for advertising, nor programming originating on local television stations
* Free download provided to the industry

http://composercensus.com/?page_id=14


Here are some of the facts and stats as requested,lol!


Here are some more. If you google "Industry code 856" and NAICS code 711510 and 711130 that will give you the lumping of songwriters and composers, amongst other similar professions, and you can see stats from the census bureau to your heart's content. Here's a starting place:
http://www.census.gov/econ/industry/pro ... 711510.htm
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
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Re: A sobering look at the composer's trade. Must-read article..

Post by Dwayne Russell » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:35 pm

Len911 wrote:2011 FILM & TV COMPOSER CENSUS (USA) SUMMARY

* 54,000 film and TV titles represented
* 700 pages of data regarding the works of 25,723 composers and songwriters
* The most comprehensive publication of its kind
* Inclusive of American network television, basic and premium cable, plus nationally syndicated programming
* Covers feature films, MOWs, short subjects, documentaries, game shows, talk shows, news and strip shows, as well as all forms of episodic TV
* Research indicates composers represented by at least 55 performing rights organizations (PROs) worldwide
* Thousands of detailed annotations in the “Notes” column
* Produced by a team of 40 research volunteers and advisors over an entire year
* The Census Group did not have the resources necessary to include music from promos, logos, music for advertising, nor programming originating on local television stations
* Free download provided to the industry


Click above to enter your email and receive a download link for the census

http://composercensus.com/?page_id=14


Here are some of the facts and stats as requested,lol!
So based on these numbers you would have 26000 composers competing for millions of cues per year. And that is suppose to be bad?

And this does not count promos, advertising and logos. It also leaves out games, internet and a whole host of other categories. And of course it does not cover all the cable channels.


I'm going to download this report. Thanks for posting that. Finally some facts. Good Job!
Last edited by Dwayne Russell on Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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