Forward/Return ratios, expenses, etc.

[Paulie]

Mojo, I've thought about creating a formal business, perhaps this year even, for tax purposes. BUT, the IRS is incredibly anal about scrutinizing home office deductions. You can't use a laptop for both work and personal use (email, web browsing, games, etc), it has to be 100% dedicated to the company. Same for the desk and floor space. If your man cave doubles as both entertainment and workspace, you cannot deduct it. I stopped trying to deduct many expenses many years ago when I was actually making money as a musician. Would love to see tax reform, but it is about as likely as term limits coming soon, a.k.a 'aint gonna happen'.

So, maybe I'll start a thread on tax deductions for composers... there might be a thread out there already, but the phpBB search engine isn't Google.

Great thread!

[funsongs]

You can't use a laptop for both work and personal use...

hmmmm... seems I've been hearing & reading a lot about that lately...

[mojobone]

Peter,
First off I think your Music is awesome. I run everything i do music and entertainment wise as a business under the company name of New Image Productions. This covers a sports show my son and i do,live performances,production work, vocal work and of course music licensing. This allows me to use all of these expenses as legitimate business deductions. Also my Studio space in my home is referred to as my Office and it is also deducted. I started doing this a couple of years ago and it has made a difference on my taxes. It also has helped with my attitude as far as being more positive. I would like to know what a cable Bill expense is Written off under mojo.

Research.

[mojobone]

It does make you wonder, though - how many actually do pack it in? I suspect a lot.

In a given year, something like seventy percent of Taxi members don't submit a single track. Those are paid members, mind. That should tell you something very powerful, not just about your "odds", but about human nature. (I really hate gambling/lotto metaphors when it comes to business, because if you don't have what buyers want you have zero chance of selling it; but that's another thread)


I can tell you from personal experience, like I told ML at my first Rally, that fear of success is far more powerful than fear of failure; after all you can't lose if you don't play, and as long as you never quit, you'll never fail. Succeed, however, and your life is gonna change, and THAT'S scary. Before I got on the plane for LA, I had the worst episode of stage fright I've had since eighth grade; I wanted to throw up, but I got on the plane, and boy am I ever glad I did. My life did change, and even if I'm not seeing substantial financial rewards just yet, it was worth it, just for all the incredibly kind, helpful and amazingly talented new friends I met; I wouldn't turn down a gold record but I wouldn't trade them for it.

Surely this simply can't be self-sustaining for everyone that wants to do it?

That's completely true; not everybody is cut out for this, including some really amazing musicians, writers and engineers. But I know some folks with legal and medical degrees (and the student loans to go with them) who decided to give it up to do this, because this is what makes them happy and fulfilled. Everybody has a level of tolerance for rejection, and surely many salmon will not reach the spawning grounds, but it's a matter of how much you're willing to pay to find this out about yourself. I think of Taxi as the most economical means of learning, but your mileage may vary.

[Geno]

Peter,
I have read through this post and I believe there have been some great replies with some great perspective. I also wanted to share a different perspective. Since, I am a full-time Worship Pastor and produce music for Gospel groups on the side, I already generate most of my income from music, so Taxi is not something that I need to live, breathe, and eat on a daily basis. However, I do see the potential for opportunity and a way to connect into the industry in a limited way. I had two goals for Taxi when I started. 1. income to supplement retirement in 20 years... 2. To gain knowledge about the TV/Film music industry... I am 2 years into my Taxi membership. Right out of the gate my first two Jazz tracks were signed to a library which was exciting. I've also had 2 TV placements earlier this year on a scary forward that you were forwarded on as well. This seemed somewhat exciting but the reality on the BMI royalty statement just out was very insignificant. This truly is a numbers game and I have come to realize that you have to be in the upper echelon of the numbers for much monetary success in this industry. To get a small sampling of the numbers we are facing, Google a few of the top non-exclusive libraries (royalty free and otherwise) to view the sheer number of artists and high quality tracks available for very little money. This gives a realistic perspective of the number of tracks and quality of tracks one must turn out for success and the type of money you can make on those tracks. I personally believe the market has been flooded with bedroom composers in the last 5-10 years so the opportunity is less for guys on our end to do as well. Taxi does however offer opportunities and it realizes the frustrations and potential for discouragement in this industry. So, Taxi combats that with member success stories, Taxi TV, Road Rally, etc... which are all great and useful tools. Michael is a master motivator and a great encourager with lots of connections. He also understands what it takes to get people to join Taxi and keep people submitting music to the Taxi listings. At the end of the day though Peter, I believe you have to self-evaluate, as I have, and decide: 1. Do I have the chops, personality, perseverance, and connections to succeed in this particular business model? (I say you need at least 3 of the 4) 2. Will the level of success I achieve compensate me sufficiently for the money and time invested? 3. Are there other options for me to compose music and make money that would be just as fulfilling as the Taxi experience? 4. Do I want to stay with Taxi primarily for the knowledge and networking it offers? Peter, I hope this has given you another perspective that you will find useful as you plan toward your musical future. Blessings. BTW Pm me with questions.

[LisaK]

This made interesting reading Peter... and I love your honesty regarding your feelings of trepidation. I imagine everyone has those feelings on some level. A lot of people who have never had a deal at all, some who are still waiting on their first forward, all wondering where their cut off point lies, emotionally, financially etc. You're not alone that's for sure.... when I wonder about the sheer quantity of musicians out there trying to walk the same path, and how much we have to do, how good we have to be to compete, and how much we have to invest in it all can be somewhat demoralizing, even so its hard to ignore the possibility that everything can suddenly change in just one day. A great library deal leading to many placements etc. and then your whole perception of the journey would change.

Anyway...I've no intention of preaching at you. Taxi is what it is, a means to a potential end. The process is too subjective for us to ever understand what's in a screener's mind. It's always going to be win a few, lose a few. Most of the time when I get a return I understand it, every so often I get thrown a total curve ball. I imagine it's the same for everyone.

I listened to your music on Soundcloud and you have the talent for sure.... I hope you decide to keep investing

[mobster85]

Dont give up and believe in yourself Peter. You have immense talent. Mojo I will be deducting that cable Bill this year. Thanks for the info.

[BenChurch]

It does make you wonder, though - how many actually do pack it in? I suspect a lot.

In a given year, something like seventy percent of Taxi members don't submit a single track. Those are paid members, mind. That should tell you something very powerful, not just about your "odds", but about human nature. (I really hate gambling/lotto metaphors when it comes to business, because if you don't have what buyers want you have zero chance of selling it; but that's another thread)

I can tell you from personal experience, like I told ML at my first Rally, that fear of success is far more powerful than fear of failure; after all you can't lose if you don't play, and as long as you never quit, you'll never fail. Succeed, however, and your life is gonna change, and THAT'S scary. Before I got on the plane for LA, I had the worst episode of stage fright I've had since eighth grade; I wanted to throw up, but I got on the plane, and boy am I ever glad I did. My life did change, and even if I'm not seeing substantial financial rewards just yet, it was worth it, just for all the incredibly kind, helpful and amazingly talented new friends I met; I wouldn't turn down a gold record but I wouldn't trade them for it.

Surely this simply can't be self-sustaining for everyone that wants to do it?

That's completely true; not everybody is cut out for this, including some really amazing musicians, writers and engineers. But I know some folks with legal and medical degrees (and the student loans to go with them) who decided to give it up to do this, because this is what makes them happy and fulfilled. Everybody has a level of tolerance for rejection, and surely many salmon will not reach the spawning grounds, but it's a matter of how much you're willing to pay to find this out about yourself. I think of Taxi as the most economical means of learning, but your mileage may vary.

Yeah I hear ya. I think I've definitely been scared of the possibility of success in the past, though as I get older I realise I'm more scared of not trying and never knowing. It's not going too badly, I already make my living from music in various ways. Now it's time to focus on the ones I particularly want! I suppose I'm already enjoying the journey, which is half the battle. At very least I don't ever want to be trapped in an office that's not my own.

Interesting to hear about the people packing in medicine to come and do this. I went to a Songwriting workshop a while ago and there were quite a lot of people who were sick of the corporate lifestyle and wanting to do something else, so I can well believe it. I suppose I'm lucky in that there's never really been any doubt that I always wanted to do music! Which hits on another fear - I know my mileage is long, but I'm not so sure about the people around me! I guess I'll just have to take it as it comes...

[Paulie]

GREAT thread, awesome perspective from everyone.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my roommate Dave, one of the best sax players I know. We went to a great school, highly competitive, and the normal path for the top jazz players was to head to NY or LA after you graduated, or to go on the road with one of the top big bands, or join the military to play with their top music groups. As we were approaching graduation we discussed this, and I thought about NY but didn't feel ready. I never went (partially because I had an awesome girlfriend who is now my wife of 22 years).

To Dave, and the many others that did make the move, they just "knew" that it was the next logical step. Early in high school,, I knew I wanted to be a musician, it is all I ever fought about and I practiced constantly. It was just part of my inner self. I think this is the same for those that want to try for the big time, whether it be a physical move, or a career decision. You have to have the fire to leap in, otherwise you will only half try and therefore most likely fail with the added bonus of getting very discouraged. In hindsight, I know that I am as good as many of the players in NY, better than some, and humbled by some. But I didn't have the desire to go there, or to LA (although I did toy with the idea of moving to Nashville). Do I regret not giving it a try? Not really... because while a few of my friends have reached very high levels, the majority of those that tried are still struggling to make a decent living 30 years later, while I have a solid life full of blessings. I am envious of my friends stage time, but I've been told some of them that they are envious of my life (wife, family, stability, nice things). That's sort of cool.

Music is a very hard industry to make a living in, and technology has turned a lot of bedrooms into studios that are cranking out awesome music, as well as crappy music diluting the market. So, to me, if you really want to be successful at this, you can be. Patience is a must, as is an honest look at your skills and commitment. We occasionally see threads from people asking "how soon will I hear back after a forward?" Honest question. We've also seen frustration after 6-12 months with zero financial success. If I make a single dollar in my first year I will consider it a success. Break even in 24-36 months would be friggin' outstanding. Nothing in this industry is easy, life (unlike many want to think or preach) is simply not fair. It's all a matter of how we deal with the ups and downs we face.

SO, my long winded post is meant to show that if you have the fire to do this, go for it! Expect it to take time, and do everything you can to get better. "Write, Submit, Forget, Repeat." If money is tight and you can't submit as often as you like, then "Write, Peer to Peer, Learn, Repeat." This forum has been immensely valuable to me the past six months, I'm trying to absorb everything I can read and hear. Keep on writing, keep on reading, keep on learning. You can do this if YOU want to, it's your call though.

All the best Peter!!!

[mojobone]

GREAT thread, awesome perspective from everyone.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my roommate Dave, one of the best sax players I know. We went to a great school, highly competitive, and the normal path for the top jazz players was to head to NY or LA after you graduated, or to go on the road with one of the top big bands, or join the military to play with their top music groups. As we were approaching graduation we discussed this, and I thought about NY but didn't feel ready. I never went (partially because I had an awesome girlfriend who is now my wife of 22 years).

To Dave, and the many others that did make the move, they just "knew" that it was the next logical step. Early in high school,, I knew I wanted to be a musician, it is all I ever fought about and I practiced constantly. It was just part of my inner self. I think this is the same for those that want to try for the big time, whether it be a physical move, or a career decision. You have to have the fire to leap in, otherwise you will only half try and therefore most likely fail with the added bonus of getting very discouraged. In hindsight, I know that I am as good as many of the players in NY, better than some, and humbled by some. But I didn't have the desire to go there, or to LA (although I did toy with the idea of moving to Nashville). Do I regret not giving it a try? Not really... because while a few of my friends have reached very high levels, the majority of those that tried are still struggling to make a decent living 30 years later, while I have a solid life full of blessings. I am envious of my friends stage time, but I've been told some of them that they are envious of my life (wife, family, stability, nice things). That's sort of cool.

Music is a very hard industry to make a living in, and technology has turned a lot of bedrooms into studios that are cranking out awesome music, as well as crappy music diluting the market. So, to me, if you really want to be successful at this, you can be. Patience is a must, as is an honest look at your skills and commitment. We occasionally see threads from people asking "how soon will I hear back after a forward?" Honest question. We've also seen frustration after 6-12 months with zero financial success. If I make a single dollar in my first year I will consider it a success. Break even in 24-36 months would be friggin' outstanding. Nothing in this industry is easy, life (unlike many want to think or preach) is simply not fair. It's all a matter of how we deal with the ups and downs we face.

SO, my long winded post is meant to show that if you have the fire to do this, go for it! Expect it to take time, and do everything you can to get better. "Write, Submit, Forget, Repeat." If money is tight and you can't submit as often as you like, then "Write, Peer to Peer, Learn, Repeat." This forum has been immensely valuable to me the past six months, I'm trying to absorb everything I can read and hear. Keep on writing, keep on reading, keep on learning. You can do this if YOU want to, it's your call though.

All the best Peter!!!

Outstanding post, well done! A very wise forum friend of mine used to say, "It takes a long time to grow a musician." It's a slow business to begin with, and being a musician (and writer) is only part of the puzzle; you have to also be a businessperson and an audio engineer to succeed, these days and that's three careers, if you don't count promoting your efforts. It's not gonna happen overnight and you're gonna need some friends.