first attempt at a cue

[bojackey]

There was a listing a while back for an traditional country instrumental. My song was returned

I made the changes the screener suggested, then made it into a cue:

https://soundcloud.com/harrellsferry/dr ... ks/s-vz1yo

I added/subtracted instruments throughout, as is often suggested for cues.

How'd I do?

Thanks!

[MattCurious]

Hey there

What was the listing you originally submitted it to? It helps so people can see what you're aiming at And what was the feedback?

Also, what what was your process for recording?

M

[Russell Landwehr]

Heya, BJ.

you did a pretty good job of bringing instruments in and out.

You could help this in a number of ways to get it into the "cue" realm.

First, it is a little too long. Cues will generally be around two minutes. Some libraries will require at least 1:30 and some will require at least 2:00. I generally make my cues between 2:00-2:30.

Second, your "edit points" are making this sound like it is several versions of a short cue back to back. When writing edit points into a cue, it needs to make musical sense in the context of the whole thing. Just stopping it, ringing out to zero, and then starting again doesn't cut it. You can have a place where the cue does a little pause, but it needs to be musical. Be aware that edit points aren't always "pauses" in the music. They are simply obvious places where there is some sort of change in the cue where the film editor can bring it in or take it out or make it match something in the visual.

Then after you've done these things, search the TAXI Forums on tips for creating realistic drums.

Hope this Helps

Regards
Russell Landwehr

[HowlingUlf]

Heya, BJ.

you did a pretty good job of bringing instruments in and out.

You could help this in a number of ways to get it into the "cue" realm.

First, it is a little too long. Cues will generally be around two minutes. Some libraries will require at least 1:30 and some will require at least 2:00. I generally make my cues between 2:00-2:30.

Second, your "edit points" are making this sound like it is several versions of a short cue back to back. When writing edit points into a cue, it needs to make musical sense in the context of the whole thing. Just stopping it, ringing out to zero, and then starting again doesn't cut it. You can have a place where the cue does a little pause, but it needs to be musical. Be aware that edit points aren't always "pauses" in the music. They are simply obvious places where there is some sort of change in the cue where the film editor can bring it in or take it out or make it match something in the visual.

Then after you've done these things, search the TAXI Forums on tips for creating realistic drums.

Hope this Helps

Regards
Russell Landwehr

Kewl!

Follow up question sort of: What do you do with reverb tails and decaying notes that won't die off fast enough to make a reasonably natural transistion.
It's completely possible I've misunderstood just about everything about edit points so ... type slowly!

[bojackey]

This is the listing I was aiming at:

U151117TC

SEVERAL, TRADITIONAL COUNTRY INSTRUMENTAL CUES are needed by a great production Music Library that’s directly supplying music to a popular, Travel-based Realty TV Show. Please submit old-timey, Down-to-Mid-Tempo Cues in the general stylistic ballpark of legends like Hank Williams, Lefty Frizzell, Ernest Tubb, etc., etc., etc. Please take a listen to the references below to get you in the vibe they need: “Hey, Good Lookin’” by Hank Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUmUFuPjqM “Always Late (With Your Kisses)” by Left Frizell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQqlMoqebnY “Drivin Nails In My Coffin” by Ernest Tubb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOkh2TndKEg Give them cowboy-style Cues with traditional instrumentation, and an overall vibe that effectively captures the feeling of the open road. Your submissions should be built around a focused melodic theme, while adding and subtracting different instruments to keep your cues truckin’ along. Imagine your cues used to support the characters journey through rural America. That’s what they need! All submissions should be at least 2 minutes in length with easy edit points and natural, non-faded, button/stinger endings. Do NOT copy or rip off the referenced artist in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a guide for tempo, texture, tone, and vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed (Great Sounding Home recordings are fine). This company offers an EXCLUSIVE 50/50 deal on performance royalties, and an 80/20 split in the Writer’s favor for any applicable download fees by clients from their Library! Please be sure the material you submit for this pitch is NOT already signed with any other Libraries or Catalogs. You’ll get 100% of the Writer’s share, and the Publisher will get 100% of the Publisher’s share. You must own or control your Master and Copyright to submit. Please submit one to three Instrumental Cues online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than 11:59PM (PDT), on Tuesday, November 17th, 2015. TAXI #U151117TC

[bojackey]

Russell, I appreciate your comments about edit points. TV shows have lots of what I call 'crash and fade' cues, I guess those are also called stingers. My cue has too many of those, and too few 'natural' edit points.

Regarding the drums, I deliberately simplified them because the listing asked for '50's style country music. They do need to be more dynamic, but now I think a single brushed snare would have been more authentic.

I probably won't put more effort in this one, because my latest attempt is much better, partly because of these forums.

Thanks!

[bojackey]

Follow up question sort of: What do you do with reverb tails and decaying notes that won't die off fast enough to make a reasonably natural transistion.
It's completely possible I've misunderstood just about everything about edit points so ... type slowly!

Hi HowlingUlf,

I use automation on a mix bus to fade 'stingers'. Sometimes I also adjust the fade on individual tracks if the instrument's natural decay makes it stand out too much.

Reverbs aren't an issue, I keep them short, usually much less than a measure.

[Russell Landwehr]

Follow up question sort of: What do you do with reverb tails and decaying notes that won't die off fast enough to make a reasonably natural transistion.
It's completely possible I've misunderstood just about everything about edit points so ... type slowly!

It is very seldom that a cue should have an "edit point" where the note die-off or reverb decay needs to be truncated. Edit points need to be a musical part of the whole cue. Think about it this way, a regular song wouldn't have a one or two measure ring out/held note in the middle of it. That's an unnatural thing. So any place In the middle of a cue that has a pause, needs to let the note or reverb tail naturally. This would mean that the next section will come in befor the tail is gone. WAY before the tail is gone.

But still, we need to get away from the thought of edit points sounding like an ending in the middle. As a matter of fact, a well respected editor and music supervisor told me that they like to grab edit points from the middle of a cue to use at the end of a scene or section of a scene. He said this is because that is the place a composer will usually put a "something is coming next" feel in their cue. Editors like to use cues in that way to keep the viewer hooked and their eyes glued to the screen. If the "resolved" ending of your cue is used, then the viewer is more likely to change the channel.

I've been guilty of misunderstanding this "pause-in-the-middle" part of edit points. Let's get away from the long holds or breaks in our cues and make them more natural.

Now, if you are referring to the ring-out and decay at the very end, there are a couple of things I do.
First, if it isn't too long, like 5seconds, I'll let it be. Nothing wrong with that, and the editor can always fade it to taste.
Second, if it is extremely long... Like 10 seconds or more, I'll fade it.

Now here's how I go about fading my tails on a cue.
I do it on each individual track. Some people will automate the master fader. That's okay I suppose, but I feel like it is more musical to fade the tracks.
I will fade each track differently to get the most natural ring or fade for the instrument.
Like sometimes the ring out of the guitar starts turning noisy, but I still want the other instruments to continue the ring. So I will fade the guitar before everything else, but in a way that sounds natural and musical.
I will actually spend a lot of time on the last note of a cue to make sure all the automated fades sound natural and work well within the context of the composition.

Hope this helps

Russell Landwehr

[Russell Landwehr]

Russell, I appreciate your comments about edit points. TV shows have lots of what I call 'crash and fade' cues, I guess those are also called stingers. My cue has too many of those, and too few 'natural' edit points.

Regarding the drums, I deliberately simplified them because the listing asked for '50's style country music. They do need to be more dynamic, but now I think a single brushed snare would have been more authentic.

I probably won't put more effort in this one, because my latest attempt is much better, partly because of these forums.

Thanks!

Stingers and bumpers may be used from the last moments of a cue, or as is often the case, the library may ask for short edits to use as stingers and bumpers.

[DanLuedke]

Nice country track guys!

Russell gave some great feedback regarding edit points, especially his emphasis on making them musical. I would also add that you can simply make "alternate" versions of your "main" track such as bumpers, stingers, 30 sec edits, etc. utilizing the hold and pause edit points you have. In fact, I highly encourage having them on hand for potential clients.