Suggestions on how to mic singer/guitar player

[Paulie]

That iRig $49 pickup looks pretty amazing for the $49 price.

[mojobone]

A Shure SM58 has the same capsule and coil as the SM57, so the difference is mostly about the distance from the capsule to the grill, which is shorter, in the SM57.


RE recording your daughter's solo acoustic guitar/vocal performance, I'd recommend a pair of ribbon mics, arranged so as to isolate the instrument from the vocal so that the two can be balanced with the room tone, at mixdown.

response curve is slightly different.

57 left 58 right



the 58 has a deeper cut in the sibilant zone and a little more in the 3500hz area.

I like EO would choose the 58 for the vocal.

Yes, the frequency response plots are different; the polar patterns are also different at respective frequencies and this is due to the differing grills, length of the mic bodies and the position of the diaphragm, relative to the grill. The 58's diaphragm is roughly parallel to the 'equator' of the woven-steel 'ball' grille, but on a '57, if your lips are brushing the windscreen, they're less than a quarter inch from the diaphragm. (maybe less than an eighth; I haven't measured the gap, and I didn't dig up the blueprints) If my only choices for a hypothetical singer were a '57 or a '58, I too would reach for the SM58 first, but not because of frequency response, which can vary from one example to the next, even in mics with consecutive serial numbers; mainly it's because it's way easier for a singer to overload a '57. On my voice, I would prefer the '57 precisely because of the difference in the presence peak; the 58's emphasizes a nasal quality in my voice, though the Beta '58 ares not near as bad. (Betas are also more consistent, in case you're wondering) The '58 is flatter, according to the chart, but in real life, less flattering. Apparently, I lost out in the sinus lottery; luckily, Audix makes a mic that works for me.

Apply enough gain, and it's surprising how small a change can make a difference; guitar pickups are a common example, where not just the number of turns, but the diameter of the coil wire is absolutely critical. (as is the purity/composition of the copper used) Gibson discovered that even the tension on the coil as it's turned makes a difference. They were researching original PAF humbuckers for their 'Burstbucker line and found that most of the 'magical' vintage PAFs had uneven winding tension, but they've kept mum, on the details. Allen Sides claims there's a subtle but measurable difference between plating a mic's basket wire with chrome as opposed to nickel. (he says the chrome buys a bit more air in the trebles) There are so many variables, (the biggest being the singer's voice, followed by the room) that there's little that can be said with any certainty about a given miking situation, until you try a few.

[Paulie]

Turns out my daughter prefers to record guitar first and then sing over it. Had tons of fun last night, I need to mix it and I'll upload a link.

[Paulie]

Rough mix, my first time recording and mixing live guitar and vocals. My daughter is singing, she turns 16 next week. This bounce sounds a little more muffled than the mix in Logic. I'll keep trying... any suggestions?

Cover: Low On Gas And You Need A Jacket - Pierce The Vail
https://soundcloud.com/paulcroteau/low-on-gas/s-BII5v

[lesmac]

Good effort . Did you use two mics on the gtr?

I think vocal intelligibility could be improved a little by backing off the verb. Either darkening it a bit or shortening the tail. Maybe its the early reflexions too?

Another dodge with reverbs and delays is to put a slamming compressor in front of the time based effect and send a copy of the dry vox to the compressor side chain. That keeps the effect out of the way of the vocal lines but it comes back up in the spaces.

If you have just the one guitar track maybe try a stereo enhancer or widening plugin. If you don't have any try duplicating the track and low pass filter one and hi pass the other and pan them hard left and right.

All of the above is just fairy dust but I think you did a pretty good job with what you had mic wise.

Would like to hear how you placed the mics.

[Paulie]

Thanks Les! I had an SM58 on a short mic stand centered directly in front of the tone hole but turned at a 45-degree angle aimed toward the 14th fret. Probbly 3-4 inches away.

Now that I know she prefers to play guitar first I can record her with two mics. What placements do you suggest?

[lesmac]

Been out of range for a while. Posting from my phone.

With one pointed at the 14th fret try the other a bit below the bridge angled up just slightly.

It's about the blend. If you are worried about phase issues zoom in on a transient and use a time shift plugin or nudge one track till they line up.

Google sos mixing acoustic guitar. They have a good article by Mike Senior I think.

[elser]

Oh, and be sure to be "rolling tape" even if the performer thinks it's just a dry run/first take kind of thing. That's often when the magic happens.

The importance of capturing an honest and inspired performance can not be overstated. The emotion of an inspired performance will blow away any mic choice. Keep it fun!

[mojobone]

The standard (probably useless, other than as a place to start) stereo method for miking a dreadnought with pencil condensers goes something like this: starting from the guitar's endpin, place the first mic's diaphragm at least 14 inches up, perpendicular to the top, angled/aimed toward the bridge, behind the player's picking hand at about a 45 degree angle, listen, then adjust for distance, which is usually more important than the exact angle, which you can also adjust to taste. Same goes for the second mic, which goes 4-8 inches above the fretboard around the twelfth fret, aimed where the fretboard meets the soundhole. If you're getting too much boom, bloom or swoosh from the soundhole, back it out and aim AT the twelfth fret and maybe try a shallower angle and/or more distance; same goes for mic one if you're getting too much click, pluck or pickscrape. You can push mic one in close, using proximity effect to get more thump, or push mic two to get more snap or slap. Check in mono for unwanted phase weirdness.

Sound propagates from hourglass-shaped guitars in strange and sometimes surprising ways, so adjustments based on what you hear are advisable and the player's technique has to be taken into consideration; some players do a lot of percussive thumping and scratching that might require a different approach (or mic) altogether. Another favorite stereo configuration is a PZM on the floor between the player's feet and an LDC next to the player's ear on the pickhand side aimed at the point of attack. (usually just north of the bridge) This one's really cool if you have hardwood floors. Since it's not left/right, feel free to get creative with the panning.

Probably the best tip on acoustic instrument miking is from Tom Dowd; he'd crawl around with his ear at mic level to find the best spot for the mic. Be aware of distances/relationships between the instrument, the mics and nearby surfaces like walls, floors and ceilings; start with the rule of thirds but if it doesn't get the desired result, remember every room has bumps and dips that can be used to advantage and if all else fails, you can play with the phase. Robert Johnson played facing the corner for a reason.