Suggestions on how to mic singer/guitar player

[Paulie]

N00b live recording question here: I'd like to start recording my teenage daughter singing and playing guitar (she's getting quite good). Assuming a two mic setup (since that's all I have inputs for), what is the best position for the guitar mic so that I can have some semblance of separation from the vocals for mixing purposes? I've got a Shure SM57 and SM58, which do you recommend for the vocal? I'm thinking a boom mic stand to position the vocal while giving her room to strum, but where should I put the guitar mic: pointing straight at the tone hole, or perhaps at a 45-degree angle pointing from the bridge toward the tone hole?

Thanks folks.

[eeoo]

Use the 58 for vox. 57 pointed at 14th fret, perhaps angled down slightly, fairly close.

[mojobone]

A Shure SM58 has the same capsule and coil as the SM57, so the difference is mostly about the distance from the capsule to the grill, which is shorter, in the SM57.


RE recording your daughter's solo acoustic guitar/vocal performance, I'd recommend a pair of ribbon mics, arranged so as to isolate the instrument from the vocal so that the two can be balanced with the room tone, at mixdown.

[lesmac]

Dynamic mics...you have to get right up on them, virtually lips touching which as a live performer you would know.
For separation try with the vocal mic angle up and the guitar mic angled downwards where eeoo suggested.

[mojobone]

Oh, geez. I never advise gal singers to eat the mic; tragedy always follows. (of course, there are exceptions)

[Kolstad]

Definitely try eo's suggestion, and move the mics around until you find a sweet spot where it sounds great in the room you have. When you are setting up mics, you are in reality making a live mix (you are mixing, so listen for a frequency balance that you like). As mojo says, the 57 and the 58 are completely identical apart from the grill, so you can use them as you wish. I like the 58 on gtrs and the 57 more on vocals as the 57 tend to sound more open due to the different grill.

I would actually suggest that you swap your 57 to a 57beta, which has 4db higher output and a little more sparkle in the high frequencies, which makes it particularly great with young female voices. And still use the 58 for gtr.

[lesmac]

Ok must say I've had no experience with female vocalists whatsoever. Just know as a male vocalist and sometimes micing guitars with 57's you need to keep pretty close to em.

Once you get that first take down and you achieve some degree of isolation on each track then its a matter of seeing which one has the best isolation then tracking either vox or guitar and building up a polished performance with singular takes.
HTH

[eeoo]

If you like the sound of your room experiment with moving farther away from the mics. Also see if you can get a good headphone mix for her and she can play to the sound of the room.

[mojobone]

To be clear, the SM57 and SM58 have the same capsule; it's the grill that's different. The 57 is more prone to plosives, (and proximity effect) so folks tend to use it more for instruments, like snare and guitar cabs, but with a really good preamp or a Cloudlifter it can sound great on vocals too, (or even acoustic guitars) but you'll generally want a little more distance from the source, in that event.

I usually start with a pop filter about 4 inches from the singer's lips, then adjust the relationships of the mic and singer to the windscreen by what the room and vocal are doing; if compression or reverb are going to be applied, I'll usually want as little room as possible, and I know if I compress more than jes' a lil' bit, plosives and sibilance will be magnified. This is where a portable vocal booth or reflection filter can come in handy. I'll usually use a lo-cut filter on the preamp, too, to reduce rumble. In some rooms, it helps to turn off the central air conditioning and maybe the refrigerator in the next room. I don't have to do this anymore, since I finally bought a new fridge, but I do have to switch off the icemaker.

The big decision is whether the performer will sing and play at the same time, or overdub the vocals separately; there's usually a tradeoff between getting isolation between the instrument and vocal-meaning you can precisely balance the relative levels, later-and getting a solid rhythmic performance coming off the floor; that depends on the performer's skills and comfort level. If the vocal bleeds into the instrument track, it'll be troublesome to replace the vocal, later.

[lesmac]

I've been using one of these; http://federalaudio.com.au/products/exp ... hone-mount
for 6 or 8 months and haven't found any ill effects sonically or on my guitars finish. I make sure the clamps are good and tight though as it did slip off once.

If you do lay down tracks separately there can be advantages performance wise, plus you can use two mics on the guitar. Maybe one at the 14th fret the other down below the bridge or where ever. The other plus in having no spill on the vox especially is that you can compress and de-ess till your hearts delight without bringing up the level of that pesky guitar spill.