Theory on melody and lyrics

[stephen1977]

That one guy be me.. ..and I'm not preaching that is the only way just to be clear. That is the way that works best for me.Personally, if I want great lyrics in a song, its logical to start with the lyrics. But again, that's just me. Like the Hummingbird said, in which I agree, sometimes I start with writing what would be the chorus, or even starting with a title/theme. Its all really up to the individual.

[milfus]

so i do both, just from making beats and stuff for so long, and cutting for emphasis and adding peices here and there, I developed a kind of rubber draft, where I will re-write both the music and lyrics together, like just really focus on music, and then write, and then completely disregarding it, say what I have to say, and just start there, and keep pushing them together trying to give as little ground as possible, its a lot more effective than youd think. because lines suddenly appear like they always should have been there, and same with melodic lines, like in the end it synchs up so tight you barely notice that you changed anything.Altho I guess my approach is a little unorthodox, but its not rare by any means, I always start with rhythm, as in percussion, just because it can set a tone without locking in anything else melodicly or directionally, and I use the growth method, where you do a bar, and then make the second bar from the first, and 3 and 4 from 1 and 2, you know till you hit the end of the section, and then you use that as ref for the other sections and what not, but generally you can break up that process and mix in words and melodic lines as you go and just keep refining against what you have until you lock down like the first 2 bars, and then make the first 4 all fit, and then 8 or whatever.I recently started doing this, bout 6 months ago, but I noticed its a much more zen like way for me, like it takes a lot of the stress out and i get way better results, because all your changes and stuff are always progress instead of sacrifice.just food for thought, what do i know

[boobielive]

http://www.myspace.com/countrybeginningsmusic Musical lyricsa poem that lends itself easily to being set to music or sungWhen I’m out I like to watch what is happening around me At a social gathering, bars, clubs, church, the beach etc.it could be the weather, the clouds in the sky. Anything canget my imagination wet and sparking.It can take me from ten minutes to well into weeks to developa story/poem. But the music may take a year. If at all.I know it is because i lack true formal music training.I have been writing for over 50 years and playing and composingJust as long.Ya all tell me ‘im stuck in the years gone by with my sound.I agree. I sell lyrics’ not music, and I must admit with the talentMost of you display when i listen is beyond my capabilities.But each and everyone of you have taught me new and excitingApproaches to my music side.But being an old guy I love the simple sounds.Of course it hurts my prospects but then I’m happyYa all keep communicating with each other and, ya never knowWhere you will lead this old hack Love ya allRichardPs sorry I just needed to talk

[Mark Kaufman]

I find myself branching out more and more, method-wise. When you block off a piece of time and tell yourself it's time to write, you have all the choices in front of you: start with lyrics, music, melody, bass line, title...whichever. I've even just pressed record and went from there.It's interesting to think about which piece of the puzzle comes to you first when you're not actively pursuing a song. Like when you walk down the street and suddenly get an idea. Was it a riff? A bit of melody? A verbal hook that floored you?When inspiration hits me from out of the blue, it also takes different forms. It's not always a musical theme, sometimes it's words.All elements are equally important in my view...I'll never be one to say lyrics are most important, or melody is most important, etc. I believe that sort of thinking is a big old beartrap, not very helpful and more likely to chop you off at the foot.

[georginasaint]

I always write lyrics and music together at the same time, at the piano. I find it hard to separate them for my own songs, though I've written lyrics for other people's music and music for other people's lyrics). The music suggests the words and the words suggest where the melody is going all at the same time. I tend to write fast and work through the night when I'm in flow. I have to say that my best songs are written in a couple of hours but then I spend several days honing the lyrics. I usually write twice as many verses and loads of variations of the chorus and then start eliminating the weaker lines. When I sleep, the music is going round and round in my head and I wake up with it still going on in my head, very loud, demanding attention. I can't listen to any other music while this process is going on because it's like hearing two different radio stations at the same time. The music changes far less than the lyrics, it's true for me! Georgie

[flood]

All good points.I mentioned earlier in the thread (I think), that I have a lyric idea that occurred to me for no particular reason, a couple weeks back. First time, and maybe it was because the idea was on my mind from this thread. If so, that's a blessing. In this case the LYRIC came almost entirely formed, and there was no melody at all. This is unusual for me, and may be a total loss. I have been turning it over in my mind, and stumped. I will paste em here, in case anyone wants to collaborate on it, but I am completely used to starting with melody.I probably have some humble pie to consume with this one, and that's fine, but I can't get this darn lyric concept outta my head, either. And no melody seems willing to join it. I spoke only for my own method, but it seems I spoke out of turn, even for that.Into the station rolls the Midnight LineIt’s a double-decker of tawdry times.We’ll ride the rails on and on.Till the last bell at the edge of dawn.Leave your demons at the door,Come inside, we’ll show you more.Step right up to Conductor Phil.What’s your poison, booze or pills?Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels so fine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, it’s divine.A cargo of wasted days and wasted lives,See it all through Dante’s eyes.Show me yours and I’ll show you mine,Bare our souls as the rails slide by.Up in the lounge car, they’re throwing bones.With a special fascination for hearts and souls.The devil’s in the details, marking time.He’s tossing cards over booze and lines.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels divine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, one more time.Here we see Carly, sipping from her wine.Her fame came and went in eighty-nine.Now meet Joker Joe along the way.He once wrote a song like Lennon in the day.It’s the last ride you’ll ever need.Step inside and take a seat.One for the road, one more pill.One more drink, thank-you Phil.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, feels divine.Chug along, chug along, Midnight Line.Chug along, chug along, one last time.Something macabre and appealing artistically about the idea of a rolling circus of addiction.No personal metaphors intended, and all my addictions are reasonably under control.Three pieces of humble pie please, while I await the golden melody's appearance.

[suzdoyle]

I definitely hear a melody in these lyrics, flood.I'm curious if others do as well -- and how different these may be. I may just tinker with this, if you don't mind, and post it just for fun -- just to see if the melody your lyrics invoke in my noggin resonate at all with what you're thinking.-- AND, might other people come up with melodies that resonate with 'em just as much?Might be interesting to explore!!Suz

[suzdoyle]

Well, Flood, I needed a break from mixing a 2 zillion part vocal tune tonight, so I took a few moments to record a rough idea of what kind of melody/ riffs/ progressions come to (or through) my brain when reading your lyrics.This is really more the accompaniment/ piano side of it -- the vocals would be a tad different, but I thought it would be fun to post a VERY ROUGH DRAFT !! version of what I hear in your lyrics, at least piano-wise.Here tis:http://www.taximusic.com/song.php?song_ ... m=trueI'll be curious if other folks here might hear something completely different in your lyrics. Either way, I'm thinking I'll work on developing the song some more. I like it's groove . . . either that, or my version of groovy belongs in the Twilight Zone !!! Suz

[flood]

Suz,I love your idea. Mind if I take it and tinker with it in my daw?As you said-Twilight Zone. . . .Meets Old West on Halloween night, perhaps.The Chug Along Chug Along lyric I can place clearly I think where you heard it, if indeed you did.Hehe, I better order some extra humble pie. Thanks all for your input and illustrating your differing and equally valid opinions.

[suzdoyle]

Oct 4, 2008, 5:21am, flood wrote: Mind if I take it and tinker with it in my daw?You betcha! Feel free to throw it in the old DAW and see what happens. Yippee skippee!Looking foward to hearing what you come up with.Suz