There are no "do-overs" for music submissions

[Casey H]

It's interesting... You often read on theses boards how TAXI is not like the "real world" when they reject songs. "After all, wouldn't the producer just change the arrangement?" ... "The artist would simply re-write that part"... "Can't they hear it as male when it is demo'd as female?"I opened with the above for a reason.A few days back I submitted my song, "What a World", for an opportunity (outside of TAXI). It was rejected with the comment that "no clear musical hook is established". Now, this has my underwear in a knot since the song has consistently received praise from industry folks (John B. review, TAXI forwards when I was a member, publishing and music library offers, and an artist possibly recording it). Much of that praise has been for the hook. I once had a publisher even sing the hook to me on the phone because she loved it. I do not think my song is the greatest thing since sliced bread or any way beyond improvement. I just wanted to explain why I thought this comment was odd.OK, the point of this rambling... I never argue when an industry pro rejects a song. I just say "thanks for listening". This is how we act as professionals. There is no point in arguing. It isn't going to change anything. I hate to keep using this analogy, but if you interviewed for a job and got a rejection letter, would you call them up hoping to change their mind?Now, for TAXI members... If, VERY occasionally, you got a rejection/critique that seemed very far off the mark, you could contact TAXI and they usually will do a re-review for you. (RESERVED FOR RARE OCCASIONS!)... So, here is a scenario where TAXI is actually better than the real world. If this was a TAXI rejection, I would call them for a "do-over".There is no crying in baseball. There are no do-overs for music submissions in the "real world." CaseyPS I am not soliciting any feedback on the song. The only point here is that TAXI members should be grateful for their ability to talk to someone about their rejection.

[gitarrero]

>>> There is no crying in baseball. There are no do-overs for music submissions.this is absolutely obvious. or does anybody know a company (no matter what branch) who say, after an applicant has sent a candidature for a job with writing mistakes, "...oh, his letter is full of mistakes, but if he just would do some courses in writing than he might be a great employee..." ?well, I've never seen the above scenario. instead, the application goes to the trash - not only if there are technical mistakes (like false writing), but also if it just doesn't fit to the job profile.why do people think that the music industry is any diffrent in that point?cheers,martin

[Casey H]

Quote:>>> There is no crying in baseball. There are no do-overs for music submissions.this is absolutely obvious. or does anybody know a company (no matter what branch) who say, after an applicant has sent a candidature for a job with writing mistakes, "...oh, his letter is full of mistakes, but if he just would do some courses in writing than he might be a great employee..." ?well, I've never seen the above scenario. instead, the application goes to the trash - not only if there are technical mistakes (like false writing), but also if it just doesn't fit to the job profile.why do people think that the music industry is any diffrent in that point?cheers,martinYes! Martin...And that also is true if the interviewer or music reviewer might be dead wrong(*). It's just the way it is. Casey(*) Dead wrong, being subjective...

[clonsberry]

I dunno. Begging worked fine when I got my wife to marry me. Seriously, as a relatively new guy, there are things I've learned or reinforced in the past few months...The music world is completely subjective but that's the nature of music itself. I'm talking to a publisher who seems to like my stuff and see potential in it. I'm getting fair critiques. We also see it here when we hear about two screeners saying different things about the same submission.For me, being a linear thinker and technically minded, it's particularly frustrating. I tend to think, "Tell me what to fix and I'll do it so it'll be perfect". Truth is, someone will always have a correction. Change this instrument. Change that melody. So it'll never be as cut and dry as a step by step fix. But my way of coming to terms with that is to remind myself that it's a subjective field. And it is what it is. The only way around is thru. Keep pitching. Keep writing. Keep pounding the pavement and keep looking for other avenues.Taxi is not my salvation. I love what Taxi's doing. And I deeply appreciate everyone who contributes to these forums. But it's an avenue and an opportunity. It's not fair to anyone, including myself, to expect that Taxi's responsible for my pursuits. (I'd be interested to know if there's anyone here who became successful SOLELY thru Taxi)As far as "can't they hear... ?" or "can't they just...?".. here's another analogy for the pile. If I (a customer) went into a car showroom and asked for a red Super 900x and they tried to sell me a blue one saying "Can't you just repaint it?", I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be interested and would probably never return. We.. and Taxi.. are in that position of getting the customer what they asked for. I'm sure those customers have their own money riding on what they get from Taxi and from us. So there's a lot invested. Add that to it being a subjective field... what are ya gonna do?Someone said somewhere that if it's truly a GREAT song, it'll find it's way. Do you know how many rejections Col Sanders got before anyone was interested in his chicken?As Dr. Phil would say, the only one you have control over is you. I've determined that I don't have time for blame. It's frustrating. But it is what it is. Regardless of what anyone else does, I will be as polite and professional as I know how. And, instead of wasting time being indignant, I'm going to keep writing. (Maybe I'll write about being indignant) Keep throwing it at every wall I can see with greater and greater accuracy.. until something sticks.

[jchitty]

I tend to agree with both points here, the one made by Casey, but also the one made by Chris. The music world is subjective in some cases. So the example of 'do-over' while carrying some weight, might not fit in all cases. There have been instances where a particular song has been returned for a TAXI listing and fowarded for another listing. Sometimes, it's just a matter of 'target.' Other times, it's just a matter of the screener feeling it's a great song based on their own professional judgment. Human beings have personal preferences....that is only natural. How many songs do you hear on the radio and you say, "wow, I love that song." And then you hear another song and say, "that's an awful song, how did that make it on the radio?"Dave's and Horace's posts about the inside TAXI screening process taught me something.....they taught me to look for the 'one consistent' pattern that is wrong with the songs I submit. It finally hit me like a lightning bolt, and Casey has pointed this out as well. If screeners are coming to a mutual consensus that one particular element of your song is lacking, then that's the element you want to focus on. If one screener doesn't like your lyrics on one phrase, and the other one does, then that sort of cancels my worries over that one particular element. I just look over all my critiques on the same song, and look for that one common thread, and voila, that's usually the problem. It's such a simple thing, common sense, but sometimes, when you first write, you can't see the forest for the trees.For instance, one of my songs takes way too long to build to the chorus. That is a song where the TAXI screeners are very consistent and indicate that if I could just fix this problem, it might be foward worthy. In other words, there is a mutual consensus. I am seriously thinking about a re-demo on this song, but I have to wait for a bit until I get the funds to do so.I think most of us here would be very professional and accept the consequences of 'passes' on our songs. I submit independently of TAXI as well, and it's common for me to get e-mails which say, "thanks, we'll pass." Most of us e-mail the person who passed and very politely say, "thanks for the listen anyway." Sometimes, when you get behind a computer screen, you might be a bit more brave and post a complaint mainly to blow off a bit of steam, but there is a section for that on the TAXI board. I don't think TAXI wants us never to complain here, but I do think they want us to be fair to them and post the review. I think when you pitch long enough, you get pretty seasoned to people passing on your stuff. I consider myself someone who peddles their wares, and if people ain't buying it, they just ain't buying it. You can't make someone want what they don't want.And once again, my 'dart theory'......something that I first posted when I came on this board......to me, songs are like darts.....you create them, you throw them, and if they miss, you keeping creating and throwing until you hit the target. I write a lot of songs like most people here, and that keeps me going. The more songs you have, the better your chances of breaking in.My only problem is finding the funds to demo songs, but in 2008, I plan to take my tax return and go wild. I'm gonna get critiques first on my new songs and then make more demoes.....'cause you just gotta roll those dice one more time.

[gitarrero]

@chris: the simple point is: our "profile" (= our song) doesn't fit what the company is looking for (their "job insertion").I know that music can be something very personal - still, the situation above is in principle the same as in every job interview. now it's up to us to act professionally and don't take personal what simply isn't personal - a rejection.cheers,martin

[horacejesse]

Quote:(I'd be interested to know if there's anyone here who became successful SOLELY thru Taxi)Old stick, if I become successful that will be the case. I joined Taxi because I did not want to google every publisher in the world. Now I just have Taxi, and I am happy with it though I have not yet had any success. I would have thought I would be bitter as hell, but not at all. I am quite at ease and loving the growth that rejection forces on us.

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:(I'd be interested to know if there's anyone here who became successful SOLELY thru Taxi)Old stick, if I become successful that will be the case. I joined Taxi because I did not want to google every publisher in the world. Now I just have Taxi, and I am happy with it though I have not yet had any success. I would have thought I would be bitter as hell, but not at all. I am quite at ease and loving the growth that rejection forces on us.I've always heard that rejection is easier to handle than success anyway. Not that I would know, hehe.

[horacejesse]

Quote:I've always heard that rejection is easier to handle than success anyway. Not that I would know, hehe.I never heard that but it must be true.

[clonsberry]

I don't think, at all, that it's impossible to be successful solely through Taxi. Especially for those, like yourself, who are experienced and very talented. I just think it makes the road much narrower if this is the only road your walking. You know.. statistically.That said, I expect to be a Taxi member for life. I'm so much happier with my writing now than I was 3 months ago. And I've met some great people along the way. And that's nothing but good! But we're mature enough to find the value in the failures. (of course, I'd always like a little less value and a few more forwards don't want to get bogged down in too much "value")