UPDATE #2: JAZZIN' IT UP!!

[ibanez468]

Hey Georgie!Thanks ALOT!!! You can call me "Bruce"! How 'bout that? Really appreciate you listenin' and all! This kinda' stuff is really the kinda' stuff that gets me goin', ya' know? I spent the last coupla' years prior ta' joinin' TAXI, tryna' write/create more jazzy tunes. Felt good ta' go back THERE again! ibanez468

[mazz]

Hey Bruce,Finally getting around to this. Cool tune! Lots of good ideas in there. Maybe a few too many for my taste , but it's a very nice effort.Of course, you know I'm going to throw my 2c in there, for what it's worth!BTW: I don't hear a Weather Report vibe much at all, I'm going to go more with Spyro Gyra.Here goes:1. The intro is way too long and the bass line is so repetitive that it kind of loses the impact. I'd recommend doing a short drum fill and then starting the tune from right where the sax comes in. With the melody to attract the attention of the ear, the bass line works fine.2. Introduce the guitar up front as well, probably doubling the melody or playing fills in between melody notes or just comping a nice rhythm part. Since you're a very fine guitar player, step up and use it to your advantage. Bringing your main axe in earlier will give the tune even more cred and live feeling.3. Loosen up the parts a bit. Make the sax less locked in with the piano on the melody. It's all starting to sound a bit too MIDI to my ears in the rhythm and melody. The solos have a good smooth jazz phrasing feel but the melodies are too locked in and don't have a nice live feel to them. Maybe doubling with guitar will help with that too?4. On certain solos, the sax for instance, let the bass play half notes or whole notes and then go back to the rhythm when the answer melodies come back in (same with the drums and percussion). That will break up the relentlessness of the whole thing and create some dynamic and rhythmic contrasts. Also, consider a few more fills in either the drums or the percussion, or both. In a tune like this, you're obviously emulating a real band and a few more variations, tastefully placed, will enhance the illusion.It's tough to pull this stuff off and you're 85% there, IMO. My hat's off to you for going for it and you obviously have an ear and a feel for the style. Give a listen to Spyro Gyra for some inspiration, particularly in the rhythm section, and with some tweaks this tune will go from very cool to great.Keep up the great work, man!!Mazz

[greatmoves]

Hey Man, You really should listen to Mazz re: bass-line. no one else seems to touch on this, but you should take heed. I would bet the Taxi Screeners will say the same. I would go one better than Mazz, If you are not able to go note by note and tweak the bass line, then get a real bass player. BTW, forgot to say. Song has a good feel. but the computer bass ruins it... IMO any musician worth their salt would hear this, makes me wonder how much you paid those guys for those reviews I read BB, Greatmoves

[ibanez468]

Mar 31, 2009, 5:23pm, mazz wrote:Finally getting around to this. Cool tune! Lots of good ideas in there. Maybe a few too many for my taste , but it's a very nice effort.It's about time! What took you so long?!? I realized you were outta' town for a minute, but this has been here forever! (Just kidding.) Quote:Of course, you know I'm going to throw my 2c in there, for what it's worth!Absolutely! Wouldn't have it any other way.Quote:BTW: I don't hear a Weather Report vibe much at all, I'm going to go more with Spyro Gyra.OK, got 1 or 2 of their CDs. Haven't listened alot though.Quote:1. The intro is way too long and the bass line is so repetitive that it kind of loses the impact. I'd recommend doing a short drum fill and then starting the tune from right where the sax comes in. With the melody to attract the attention of the ear, the bass line works fine.OK, I get what you're sayin'. But I've heard many a tune where the bass line is repetitive and funky for this kinda' stuff. Otherwise, I wouldn't be tryin' it myself, but I hear ya'! Quote:2. Introduce the guitar up front as well, probably doubling the melody or playing fills in between melody notes or just comping a nice rhythm part.I thought I did that (doubling the melody, I mean.). Not loud enough, huh? There's 3 instruments playing the melody at the second verse from that point on. Piano, sax, guitar. And I've got a rhythm guitar workin' in the BG at all times from that point on too. Hmmm, maybe it's not loud enough either? Quote:Since you're a very fine guitar player, step up and use it to your advantage. Bringing your main axe in earlier will give the tune even more cred and live feeling.I see.Quote:3. Loosen up the parts a bit. Make the sax less locked in with the piano on the melody. It's all starting to sound a bit too MIDI to my ears in the rhythm and melody. The solos have a good smooth jazz phrasing feel but the melodies are too locked in and don't have a nice live feel to them.Gotcha'! I think I can fix that. Make it a little more "sloppier", for lack of a better word? Quote:Maybe doubling with guitar will help with that too?See response to #2.Quote:4. On certain solos, the sax for instance, let the bass play half notes or whole notes and then go back to the rhythm when the answer melodies come back in (same with the drums and percussion). That will break up the relentlessness of the whole thing and create some dynamic and rhythmic contrasts. Also, consider a few more fills in either the drums or the percussion, or both. In a tune like this, you're obviously emulating a real band and a few more variations, tastefully placed, will enhance the illusion.Good ideas. I'll see what I can cook up.Quote:Give a listen to Spyro Gyra for some inspiration, particularly in the rhythm section, and with some tweaks this tune will go from very cool to great.We'll do!This is all GOOD stuff Mazz. When I started out with this tune, I don't know that I had intentions of using it for a submission. Eventually, it DID end up out there for the screener to rip apart. I took a chance, what the heck? We'll see what happens. If it gets returned, then I definitely have some revisions ta' work on, huh? Thanks for the ideas Mazz, and for your time. 'Preciate it.ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Mar 31, 2009, 10:14pm, greatmoves wrote:I would go one better than Mazz, If you are not able to go note by note and tweak the bass line, then get a real bass player.greatmoves, I can go note for note and tweak the bass line, and I am a real bass player. Just an FYI, I came up with every bass line on a real bass, and I can actually play them too. I also played the exact bass lines along with Trilogy just for comparison & credibility, and believe me, they didn't sound that much different from each other, otherwise, I wouldn't have gone along with it.Now you ask, "Well why didn't you just play the "real" bass then?" Because, at the time, I felt using Trilogy would be alot easier & alot faster than settin' up the "real" bass. Translation: I was lazy. I felt that it was very close enough to the "real" thing, that it would pass. If I hadn't mentioned that it was Trilogy, you might not've known what it was. In any event, I may just hafta throw the "real" thing on there eventually, if it doesn't pass bass-wise. I'll be sure ta' PM ya' with the "live" results, although it doesn't look like you're around much. Quote:but the computer bass ruins it... IMO any musician worth their salt would hear this, makes me wonder how much you paid those guys for those reviews I read I don't think it "RUINS" it, not totally anyway. Again, I played along with it using a "real" bass, and it really doesn't sound that much different. And I didn't hafta' pay anybody anything. I ain't holdin' on ta' that kinda' money boss. They were being kind to me, I think. ibanez468

[ideascapes]

ibanez468/Bruce,I wanted to add another note since I had made a comment on the bass on your original post. I think the sound is fine and had assumed that it was a loop of your playing a real bass. In my earlier note, I said that the bass "attracted too much attention" and you replied that it is supposed to. On 2nd listen, I'll just echo what Mazz said: recommend you change the pattern occasionally as it's pretty prominent throughout and competes with the other instruments once it gets into the upper register.Piano is still a bit stiff to me, but the percussion break is super and I still love the ending. Vince

[mazz]

Bruce,RE: Bassline. I'd love to hear it played by you. The part as it is sounds too "perfect", like it's the exact same velocity, timing, etc. for 2 bars over and over. Even if you sequenced 8 bars at a time it would make a difference to my ears. Repetitive is OK but in this case it became mechanical very quickly.I'll go back and listen for the guitar on the melody. Maybe it was so blended in I didn't pick it out. In any case, loosening up the sax and piano will help the "live" vibe.Good stuff!!Mazz

[ibanez468]

Apr 1, 2009, 6:56am, ideascapes wrote:I think the sound is fine and had assumed that it was a loop of your playing a real bass.See greatmoves? Vince assumed it was a loop of me playing a real bass. That was the intent. That doesn't make him less of a musician, does it?Mar 31, 2009, 10:14pm, greatmoves wrote:but the computer bass ruins it... IMO any musician worth their salt would hear this...Apr 1, 2009, 6:56am, ideascapes wrote:I'll just echo what Mazz said: recommend you change the pattern occasionally as it's pretty prominent throughout and competes with the other instruments once it gets into the upper register.OK, I'll see what I can do about that. Good point!Quote:Piano is still a bit stiff to me, but the percussion break is super and I still love the ending.Haven't changed anything since your last post. I'll hafta' dig in there and see what I can do, pending the results from the screener. He/she'll probably say the same thing.Thanks for the feedback Vince. 'Preciate it!ibanez468

[ibanez468]

Apr 1, 2009, 7:55am, mazz wrote:RE: Bassline. I'd love to hear it played by you.Well, looks like that's what I'm gonna' hafta' do in order to be more convincing. Quote:The part as it is sounds too "perfect", like it's the exact same velocity, timing, etc. for 2 bars over and over.C'mon Mazz, I thought that's what we were shootin' for here. Perfection! Right? Tril is one of the BADDEST bass payers I know! Naw, I gotcha'!Quote:I'll go back and listen for the guitar on the melody. Maybe it was so blended in I didn't pick it out. In any case, loosening up the sax and piano will help the "live" vibe.Yeah, I tried ta' play those melodies pretty tight on the geetar, so oftentimes it's hard to distinguish the guitar from the sax. Guitar is panned to the left, sax in the middle, piano moves toward the right in the higher registers. There's no tellin' how many takes I did until I felt it was on the money. I tried ta' do a few things in there to let it be known that there was a guitar part in there playin' the melody (small string slides, more vibrato, etc...) I'll see what I can do about it.We'll go ahead and throw a real bass part in there and see what happens. I'll try and do some variations ta' make it more convincing. I'll try and re-post when I'm done. Thanks dude!ibanez468

[greatmoves]

Nice to hear from you. You're right I usually only look and listen, saw your notice- Took time to listen and checked you out. You said it, re: the other members, they were being nice to you. bad combination "Being nice to an aspiring musician" when it comes to the Quality of their Music. The only section of world population where that works is from age 3 - preteen, " I might be wrong preteen might be a little high" Seriously, no kidding. My comment about musicians worth their salt, could also be re-phrased as, " If they respect you they will tell you the truth" Mazz touched on this the closest. My only intentions were to send you in a more open minded, dare I say better directionIf I understand you correctly, this is a loop of you, playing Bass. but when the chords change, the arppegio is the same just a higher botton note, this just doesn't sound musically interesting. Bottom line, I think the song has a heartbeat and pressure, But could benifit from some TLC in the DAW-ICU ward , with a specialist of your choosing.Write until it's Right... BB, Greatmoves