When is a song "great"?

[squidlips]

Quote:Squidlips said: Ah, the thrill of irony and holding diametrically opposed ideas in my head. Yes, I had that experience yesterday when Matt reminded me of an earlier position I have held! <LOL>Didn't someone once say that was wisdom? The ability to believe in diametrically opposed ideas and be content? Today must be my day to be content.

[tedsingingfox]

What a GREAT thread!! Agree? Disagree? Seriously, so much to consider here. Love it that so many of you are taking the time to respond in such detail. thanks.Ted

[ggalen]

Quote:What a GREAT thread!! Agree? Disagree? Seriously, so much to consider here. Love it that so many of you are taking the time to respond in such detail. thanks.TedThanks, Ted. It's always nice when people respond, contribute so many interesting ideas, and provide wisdom and food for thought about this thing called music that we are all love so much.

[mazz]

I think this is a great, stimulating, thread!I've said this before and I say it again to remind myself: when I'm writing music for TV, I'm not in the music business, I'm in the TV business. The music I write is meant to support the image, not stand on it's own as a piece of music. If it does call attention to itself, it probably won't get used. I own a number of film scores on CD but I don't listen to them much outside of orchestration study because most really don't stand up on their own as pieces of music. And many times it's not the composer's fault. They are beholden to the director and the images. There are a few with distinctive sounds like John Williams but it's rare that a composer is given the leeway he is by the likes of Speilberg. Morricone is another that comes to mind. But the directors he worked with were willing to allow his voice to be a large part of the film. That's pretty rare these days, particularly in Hollywood with so much money on the line.So to judge music written to accompany images as "great" or "classic" is pretty hard to do. There are exceptions but they are few and far between and based on opinions, of course!Good stuff in this thread!!Mazz

[squidlips]

Quote:I own a number of film scores on CD but I don't listen to them much outside of orchestration study because most really don't stand up on their own as pieces of music. And many times it's not the composer's fault. They are beholden to the director and the images. There are a few with distinctive sounds like John Williams but it's rare that a composer is given the leeway he is by the likes of Speilberg. Morricone is another that comes to mind. But the directors he worked with were willing to allow his voice to be a large part of the film. That's pretty rare these days, particularly in Hollywood with so much money on the line.So to judge music written to accompany images as "great" or "classic" is pretty hard to do. There are exceptions but they are few and far between and based on opinions, of course!Good stuff in this thread!!MazzI love Johnny Klimek and Reinhold Heil in "Blood and Chocolate" and of course Gabriel Yared in bunches of stuff. But you're right, it's rare to find someone willing to let the composer have some room to run.

[tedsingingfox]

Quote:I think this is a great, stimulating, thread!I've said this before and I say it again to remind myself: when I'm writing music for TV, I'm not in the music business, I'm in the TV business. The music I write is meant to support the image, not stand on it's own as a piece of music. If it does call attention to itself, it probably won't get used. I own a number of film scores on CD but I don't listen to them much outside of orchestration study because most really don't stand up on their own as pieces of music. And many times it's not the composer's fault. They are beholden to the director and the images. There are a few with distinctive sounds like John Williams but it's rare that a composer is given the leeway he is by the likes of Speilberg. Morricone is another that comes to mind. But the directors he worked with were willing to allow his voice to be a large part of the film. That's pretty rare these days, particularly in Hollywood with so much money on the line.So to judge music written to accompany images as "great" or "classic" is pretty hard to do. There are exceptions but they are few and far between and based on opinions, of course!Good stuff in this thread!!MazzGreat stuff here. And this time, no pun intended. Even for someone like me who has no aspirations to score a film, this is valuable, provocative info (can you guess which other thread I've been following today?).

[gendron]

Mazz, assuming you are as you say you are, a Commercial Musician first and foremost. Do you ever stray from your regimented life and create for pleasures sake? If so... how would you define the musical outcome? Greater, lesser than or about the same as anything else. Jus' curious.

[timmcallister]

Quote:So to judge music written to accompany images as "great" or "classic" is pretty hard to do. There are exceptions but they are few and far between and based on opinions, of course!Mazzgreat thread and appreciate everyones opinion. I have found a few film scores that are interesting enough to ME that I purchased (AND listened) to them.Sling Blade (anything Daniel Lanois touches is wonderful) and The Horse Whisperer come to mind. Both these spent a considerable amount of time in my CD player.

[mazz]

Hi Silence,Good question. Right now, I get great creative pleasure from trying to solve the musical problems posed by TAXI listings and other assignments. So, no, I don't write much for pleasure's sake because I'm already creatively satisfied being a commercial writer. That being said, when I've cracked the nut of the marketplace, I'm sure my goals will change and maybe I'll want to sit down and write a symphony or something but for now I'm so focused on writing the best music I can that meets the needs of the clients that I don't think about it much because that process is very fulfilling.What I do miss is having a group of musicians that like to do free improvisation. I used to do that a lot a few years ago and it was a very creative outlet.Thanks,MazzPS: "The Magnificent Seven", "Ben Hur", "The Mission", "Cinema Paradiso". All classic scores IMO

[davewalton]

Quote:Mazz, assuming you are as you say you are, a Commercial Musician first and foremost. Do you ever stray from your regimented life and create for pleasures sake? A funny thing happens upon seeing/hearing your first piece of music in film or on television... there is just about no greater creative pleasure. I know it's kind of a mental thing but one of my least favorite tracks on a project became my favorite track on that project because it got used in a prominent place. Once I saw how they used it and the importance they assigned to it, I got a LOT of pleasure out of that track. Still do. A psychiatrist (no, not MY psychiatrist ) was asking me the same thing, about the difference between composing for projects and composing for myself. I decided that everything I compose IS for myself... the fact that it's for a project is kind of a bonus. When I see/hear it in a film or on TV it's almost surreal and believe me, it provides motivational energy for writing new material. Aside from that though, there's something very satisfying about writing an Indian meditation track one day and a high energy electronica track the next day. I think it's that variety that triggers pleasure for a composer the same way that a "song from the heart" triggers pleasure for a songwriter.