Writing Hit Songs - Myths

[ibanez468]

Geo,I agree with you in a sense. I used to write for me before I joined TAXI. Considering that this is a different ballgame now, I've had to change my way of thinking. Now I have to write for the approval of screeners, clients, etc...which ultimately translates to the rest of the outside world. Didn't have anybody to listen to my stuff before, but at least now there's some type of vehicle (no pun intended) available for me ta' get somethin' heard. I think it was deantaylor who said it best in another thread. Just do both. Write for yourself, what you like, but also be flexible enough to write what the masses wanna' hear too. In my case, these listings are what the screeners & clients wanna' hear, so that's what I'm gonna' try and give 'em. I think it's the fastest road to being somewhat successful at this particular game. Just my .02 FWIW.I-468

[diogenes]

I'm nobody, have had only one forward in my year with Taxi but I gotta say, i pretty much agree with the guy. Hannah Montana is charting now, do you think anyone will remember her current songs in five years?...I don't. With regards to "writing for the market" it was said at the rally this year that most great songwriters write for themselves...I wish i could elaborate more on that but I can't remember the rest...but I think the point was that the truly great songs are not written by trying so sit down and capitalize on a trend, it's making a connection with other people by delivering something sincere...

[sgs4u]

Squids, I'm sure I'm slower than you are, even tho my quirky personality may convey different. Whenever I hear someone say, "call it like I see it," it usually means they aren't likely gonna agree. As for someone suggesting that I'm not seeing what's right under my nose... Well, I don't profess to be the smartest guy on the block, but I guarantee my friend, I pay close attention.I found the thread and the source of the thread interesting because it might be easy to disagree with the guy's thinking, but if you peel back the layers, he's not that off the wall, or particularly inflammatory.The point of the thread, isn't really about agreeing or disagreeing to me. Everyone has a different take on why any song is either a "HIT," or just an awesome song, without the "Hit" status yet. The two things aren't always the same to me. Really interested in what anyone else has to jump in with. Not so interested in opinions that try to make everyone else's moot.Quote:Quote:No offense intended! Just callin' it like I see it.AndréI figured Steve or casey would get my joke. I. Don't. Write. Music. Fast. Anybody get it now? Anybody? No? Whenever someone says "I jes call it like I see it" I always think of Seinfeld when he used to talk about people who use "I'm just saying'" as an afterthought after something really....uh..... blunt (honest?)Example:"You're, like, HUGELY fat! I'm jes sayin!!" Anyway, I'm not pickin' Andre.....it was a poor quip on my part, nothing more.

[twilsbach]

I'm a little late to this fireworks display, but two comments.This (paraphrased) statement rang true to me: A huge amount of the songs that have charted well over the past x amount of years, are not timeless classics (great songs). It again reminds me of the analogy (said each year by someone at the rally whose name I don't remember) "The difference between a mediocre song and a great song is the difference between the floor and the ceiling, the difference between a good song and a great song is the difference between the ceiling and the sun"I also think that the target audience for that book is probably not anyone who is an active member of taxi and more specifically an active member of this board.

[horacejesse]

Speaking of myths. One of the biggest to me is that a hit song has to tell a story. I think that idea has more applicability in current country than elsewhere, but even there only a percentage of the songs actually tell a chronological story recognizable as a story or tale. It seems to me that in pop or rock the majority of successful songs do not tell a real story.Another is the use of imagery. Again, current country is into imagery right now, but still there are more than a few songs you would be hard pressed to find a single image within or, if that is too strong, you will not find vey many.Diane Warren is recognized by many people (including myself) as one of the really great songwriters operating today. I do not consider myself an expert in her music at all. But I did notice in a few that I listened to that both imagery and story were not really present in much quantity. Un-break My Heart is a great and novel idea and she got a really fine song out of it and a big hit as well. But if I am remembering correctly, it was basically just statements without much story or imagery. Without the video who would know for sure what the heck it is about? I seem to remember something similar about Because You Loved Me. All statements.I only picked the couple of songs I know about. With her body of work she probably has dozens with both outstanding imagery and story. But the existence of even two mega songs both of which defy the common myths, may mean that being too formulaic could make you overlook a part of the creative spectrum those at the top are not overlooking.

[sgs4u]

It's an interesting perspective, and of course, Jesse, you're right. It does indeed happen, that "Hit" songs include sub standard writing. But that doesn't actually detract from their "Hitness," at least not to me. I might not want to listen to that hit again, but it can still be a hit, without my approval. The first record my parents ever bought for me was "the Archies." What do I frikkin know... Quote:Speaking of myths. One of the biggest to me is that a hit song has to tell a story. I think that idea has more applicability in current country than elsewhere, but even there only a percentage of the songs actually tell a chronological story recognizable as a story or tale. It seems to me that in pop or rock the majority of successful songs do not tell a real story.... But the existence of even two mega songs both of which defy the common myths, may mean that being too formulaic could make you overlook a part of the creative spectrum those at the top are not overlooking.

[horacejesse]

I am fearing you may have misunderstood. I do not find anything sub-standard in the two DW songs I mentioned--quite the opposite. The point being that there are times when true excellence is acheivable without ever resorting to an image or a story. A song does not need imagery or a story to be great. That is something many of us could easily lose sight of, given our dedication to cracking the code by following consensus guidelines. No more, and no less meant.

[squids]

Quote:But the existence of even two mega songs both of which defy the common myths, may mean that being too formulaic could make you overlook a part of the creative spectrum those at the top are not overlooking. Absolutely my point only you said it way betta! Thanks jesse.

[andreh]

What the heck is going on around here? As Steve said, it's all good. Quote:Squids, I'm sure I'm slower than you are, even tho my quirky personality may convey different. Whenever I hear someone say, "call it like I see it," it usually means they aren't likely gonna agree. Quote:I figured Steve or casey would get my joke. I. Don't. Write. Music. Fast. Anybody get it now? Anybody? No? Whenever someone says "I jes call it like I see it" I always think of Seinfeld when he used to talk about people who use "I'm just saying'" as an afterthought after something really....uh..... blunt (honest?)Example:"You're, like, HUGELY fat! I'm jes sayin!!" Anyway, I'm not pickin' Andre.....it was a poor quip on my part, nothing more.

[andreh]

Quote:Speaking of myths. One of the biggest to me is that a hit song has to tell a story.Good point...different genres require different lyrical and musical approaches to work with their listeners.Quote:But the existence of even two mega songs both of which defy the common myths, may mean that being too formulaic could make you overlook a part of the creative spectrum those at the top are not overlooking. I disagree. Even if some "myths" were defied by a few mega hits, there was still a formula to them that made them so desirable and satisfying to listen to.André