Writing Hit Songs - Myths

[andreh]

Quote:Are you guys trying to debate or prove an argument?I seem to be missing your point... To me, it's just not really all that black and white. OTOH, if it is for you guys, than that's great for you, carry on. Steve-I'm just sharing my perspective, which is that there IS some black & white to writing commercial music (and some gray area too).What's YOUR point?

[gongchime]

Yeah Hummingbird, it was the infamous Nadia Boulanger who essentially said the same thing. You first have to have a technique (playing or composing) and then a form to place it in.

[edteja]

Regardless of the author's motives or experience, I would find this hard to disagree with.On the other hand, if you learn the skills and techniques that great songwriters use, you will have an excellent shot at commercial success, because you will have no competition. There always has been, and always will be, a huge market for brilliant songs.The "no competition" might be a bit of unnecessary hype, but the rest rings true. For me the keys here are study "great" writers and writing "brilliant" songs. Unfortunately, viewed that way, it is little more than common sense, and we are thrown back on our own perspectives of what is "great" or "brilliant." So there is not much to debate there. And I don't think that the fist myth mentioned, that the billboard songs are not necessarily great doesn't mean that great songs don't chart. If that is the intention, then I have to disagree with him. Some do.

[ggalen]

Seems that if an average song can become a big hit because of the several main, real-world factors he describes (big star, marketing dollars, great production, luck, executive "push")......then you could have hits by writing good, average songs and really focusing on the main factors above.In fact, I think I just described the real music business. But many songwriters look primarily at the song itself as the only factor. "Just write a great song and it can't fail", they say.But that is looking at it only through the lens of what you do and enjoy.And it doesn't help that the listings here are always asking for GREAT songs. But that's an old discussion from a month or two ago. And maybe song quality is a relatively minor factor, as long as the song is a solid, AVERAGE song geared to the current market. With good connections and a lot of luck, and somebody with money and marketing muscle who personally enjoys the song, (and thus officially dubs it "great"), they can push it onto the charts...

[squids]

Interesting!! (I think you did describe the music industry! Only it sounds way better than the way I say it. )I'm jes wondering how many songwriters get up every day and say "I can't wait to write more average songs today!" If his point that adding certain qualities from the classics (heh, there's a debate) to an average song will make it an above-average song, I would agree this is possible. The problem is the person who's adding is the one who wrote the average tune. You can study and study and write and write and no doubt improve but shouldn't there be some talent in there somewhere too?

[gongchime]

Talent schmalent. Just put in 10,000 hours of study and practice (of the right things) then you'll be good to go.

[ggalen]

squids,I think the hopefulness here is that even if a song we write and love is really just an average solid song...it has as much chance as any other song if it hits the right ears in the industry, at the right time. But no guarantees. And there is the rub...I think people want and need to feel their commercial success is in their control...hence all the books and discussions about what will practically guarantee a hit if we can just create a song with certain surefire attraction...based on hard to learn but doable skills and techniques. Because then it's up to us, not chance and connections.In the meantime, you can be proud of writing a song you feel is great, to your own ears. And you can sing and play it for your own audiences live, as I do, and many people will like and love it as well.It's all good. then.

[geo]

Quote:I'm nobody, have had only one forward in my year with Taxi but I gotta say, i pretty much agree with the guy. Hannah Montana is charting now, do you think anyone will remember her current songs in five years?...I don't. With regards to "writing for the market" it was said at the rally this year that most great songwriters write for themselves...I wish i could elaborate more on that but I can't remember the rest...but I think the point was that the truly great songs are not written by trying so sit down and capitalize on a trend, it's making a connection with other people by delivering something sincere...Nicely summarised, the connection with the listener I think is key... Geo

[diogenes]

This is neither here nor there but still seems a little pertinent. I'm not sure where I saw this or who the artists were, but once a reporter asked a member of a boy band how they knew when they had a hit song and they said, "when it's a hit on the charts". Then they asked a real musician/artist (a famous one, cant remember who) and they said when the song makes the hair on their arms stand up. The point being, which may be getting redundant by now, is that greatness isn't measured by chart position or awards, (every 2-bit car salesman in the country has a wall of plaques behind their desk). I think greatness is something that comes in time and that the creator is usually the last to know about (probably because it's bestowed upon them by people that said they sucked twenty years prior). I think writers should do what they do, and let others worry about the details/categorizing/chart positions/etc.

[geo]

Quote:Quote:In my last critique I was instructed to both study and emulate the music I was submitting for but also develop my own voice.... I guess as long as it sounds just like what's on the radio I'll be OK.Geo-It seems to me it's much more challenging for most people to NOT sound like themselves than it is to have their own voice. If I spend my time emulating what's on the radio, I'm going to end up writing songs that are marketable [if I'm good enough], but that sound a bit like me whether I like it or not.So shouldn't people who want commercial success (as songwriters) be honing their skills at reading the marketplace, rather than trying to sound like individuals at the expense of marketability?André Yes they should.... I'm not suggesting my opinion is for everyone... I do not look down on those who take that approach either... those who are good enough to do it... I envy your (or their)success... I'm just saying for me I prefer my approach which is to write for me... using the lessons here to make my music accessible but not changing it to "sound like XYZ". I got into music to write songs... I thought I got into to form a band ... but really it was the songwriting.... I never looked for a drummer, I purchased one (Korg.. don't get any ideas ) who would do exactly what I wanted... got a Fostex 4 track before a bass amp... and I'm a bass player!! I know .... I should just grow up and focus on writing the kind of targeted music that is successful here .... but the part of me that got me into this... the part that was angry about the injustice du jour.... or in pain over a girl... or rebelling against a close minded society... that part tells me no... Geo