Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

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Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by HayesMusic » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:13 pm

Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned
The Review:

Nice keyboard riff. However, for this particular project the Music Library requested the songs have "modern, up-to-date sounds" and "super current production techniques" and some of the sonic choices and textures take it out of alignment with that.

My thoughts:

Don’t feel this review is helpful at all. Felt I used modern sounds and production techniques with lots of movement, breaks, drops, layered instruments, and ear candy. All the this review says to me is NO. There nothing educational IMO.

Would like to hear some input from other members on my track: https://soundcloud.com/michaelhayesmusi ... uture-bass

Y180725FB
FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL CUES are needed by a very successful, NON-Exclusive Music Library that gets tons of placements in TV Shows, Films, and TV Commercials. They’re on the hunt for Mid-To-Up-Tempo Instrumental Cues that are in the general stylistic range of the references below: “Light” by San Holo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOFTqVi-qp4 “In The Name Of Love” by Martin Garrix & Bebe Rexha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeGfss2vsZg “Alone” by Marshmello: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZHF5UqnU4 Although the references have vocals, this request is for Instrumentals only. Please send them well-crafted Future Bass Instrumental Cues that use very modern, up-to-date sounds and super current production techniques.
Build your submissions around a catchy central melodic theme, and keep it interesting, dynamic, and forward-moving by layering electronic elements in and out as your Instrumental Cue progresses. Be sure to throw in some cool breaks, drops, and ear candy to help make your Cue exciting and cutting edge!

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by markhimley » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:29 pm

Hey Hayes,

First off - I'll point out the screeners only ever want to help:) They all LOVE music and want you to succeed, and they are all vets in one way or another. While their feedback can sting a bit at first, they are right 99% of the time and usually know what they're talking about.

That being said - very cool track!! I'm not an *expert* at Future Bass, however it has been my main focus for the last year, and I've had a good amount of success with it. I've signed close to 100 or so Future Bass tracks and have had a couple dozen placements with them. None of that to boast - simply to give my feedback some credibility - feel free to check out my music via the links in my signature if you'd like.

Right from the first second it sounds dated to me. It is a cool riff for sure, but the sound of that keyboard is not modern in terms of future bass.

When the drop hits, it sounds much more modern. Love the vocal chops and the overall vibe sounds Marshmello inspired which is great. One thing that could help the drop though is to bring up the kick and snare a bit, they are a bit buried. You'll notice in lots of Future Bass the drums are very present and often pretty fat. The layering of the leads and the white noise definitely are spot on though with Future Bass.

Then we go back to the 80's with the break at 34ish seconds, that keyboard/synth sound just takes it out of the modern vibe. The lead sounds you use here and there are great - those are spot on IMHO.

The drop that starts around 1:07 sounds a bit dated too, that arp sound isn't super modern.

Some things overall I'm missing - big fat drums (your cymbals are loud but where are the kick and snare?), some sort of foley elements (unique snares or other foley ear candy), big saw chords, heavy use of side-chain compression on synths (almost more as an effect to give that heavy pumping feel), and LFO movement within your synths. These aren't all an absolute must of course, but they are some obvious staples of Future Bass that would really help you get in that area better.

I hope some of that was helpful!! Only trying to help shed some light on what the screener might have meant and help you head in the right direction. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to help:)

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by HayesMusic » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:18 am

Mark,

WOW! Many thanks for this extremely helpful critique; far more than I ever expected. I agree completely with everything you say and will do a rework in the areas you point out.

Trying to emulate the Marshmello track from the beginning drove my choice of synths in the intro. I felt it was close but I do agree is sounds like the 80s.

Spent some time listening to your Future Bass on your website. Well done and helps me see what successful tracks sound like. Sometimes I think I try to over produce. I plan to spend some more time listening to your music when I’m in the studio.

Once again thanks for the incredibly helpful advice!

Michael

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by chrismugs » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:42 am

Mark is really awesome. i can't really add much more to what he has already said but just to echo the point about the drums.

Michael,
one trick that i've used for future bass is to make the snare and/or clap wide. either by using some type of stereo effect or simply panning the same or different sounds hard left and hard right.

but you are certainly on the right track. just finding the right type of analog synths is what will put you on the right track. lastly, i think you can use that ARP pattern but not the ARP synth. if you can swap it out with some plucks or a unique sound sample, it could work

Chris

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by andygabrys » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:00 am

To add to what Mark said:
I'm not an *expert* at Future Bass, however it has been my main focus for the last year


Marks stuff is great, being used lots - and he's right on with all his feedback.
.....overall vibe sounds Marshmello inspired which is great.....
BUT....

Being too close to the ref is definitely an issue - there have been multiple listings lately for Future Bass - the secret is definitely out and its being used all over the place.

the three refs used in this listing demonstrate 3 different vibes that are often used:

1) Alone - its a style all its own and if you are going for that vibe you have to be super careful that what you write is both contemporary in sound and not too close in composition. The hammering 8th note thing is pretty much a Marshmello brand. If you go for that its going to be pretty close to a rip.

2) In the name of love - slower tempo - huge anthemic chorus.

3) Light - in the middle, a range of textures, in a way combining all that future bass includes right now including the first two refs.

When you write future bass, you are going to be more in the genre, and less of a derivative rip off if you combine more of refs 2) and 3).

Another way to think of it compositionally is:

Verse > Build > Drop.

All of these songs include these sections, and the inventiveness in the reuse of motifs from the verse and the drop, and the originality in your build will determine how much your stuff both fits the genre and also stands out as original.
.......big fat drums (your cymbals are loud but where are the kick and snare?), some sort of foley elements (unique snares or other foley ear candy), big saw chords, heavy use of side-chain compression on synths (almost more as an effect to give that heavy pumping feel), and LFO movement within your synths.....
this is solid as well.

The kick and Bass (often 808 derived) are going to be hitting so hard that combined with side chain / LFO on synths you should be getting pretty audible pumping like at Light at 3:15. Some people would hate that kind of "mastering" pumping effect but its part of the genre.

For cheap LFO you can make a custom preset in a stereo tremolo plug like in Logic X or the (cheap) Nicky Romero Kickstart plugin is another good choice.

Last hint: the synth sounds are easy to find. Do some looking around.

concerning the lack of feedback from the screener - this is a "Y" listing - which means no feedback. Its your choice to submit to these, and a sentence or two is generous as they don't have to write anything. As your experience grows you will hear the differences easily and know what kind of moves to make to revamp anything the screener mentions.

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by Paulie » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:21 pm

Talk about solid feedback. Mark and Andy with the 1-2 combo of educational gold. Well done boys! :)
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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by HayesMusic » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:14 am

Want to thank everyone for the help, you are all awesome! I remixed the track last night trying to apply everyone’s advice much as I could.

I layered the original synth basses with another, brought up the kick, widened the snare, cymbals down, thickened up the final drop, and brought up some of ear candy that was not so obvious in the first mix. I’m pleased with the result but that was last night and haven’t had a chance yet to listen in the studio this morning (and we all know how that goes sometimes).

To Andy’s comment, “Being too close to the ref is definitely and issue . . “ we all have to make a choice of how close we can emulate without copying. Several listings had Marshmello references so seems something similar is desired.

In 2015 the Nashville Composer Association featured speaker for 2 days was Michael Bearden (http://michaelbearden.com/) music direct for Michael Jackson, Madonna, Lady Gaga, and more. Michael is a monster in the music business. Michael played us some of his library tracks and you had no doubt what songs they were intended to emulate. The songs were obvious yet different enough to avoid copyright infringements. You just have to be careful.

So I make the decision to try to emulate but not copy.

Here is the remix and appreciate any further comments. Hope I can return the favor someday.

https://soundcloud.com/michaelhayesmusi ... bass-remix

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by markhimley » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:26 pm

Sounds better to my ears, nice work. Now take what you learned, and do it again and again..and again. Write, submit, forget, repeat.

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by sermusicusa » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:49 pm

Many people do not realize that older sounding 80's synths are in future bass. They are in a lot of songs. Mostly SAWs and some other type of synths.
So saying that something is dated because one used a SAW in a track is really stupid.
I did not listen to this particular track. But I have been producing future bass for awhile, I will admit its not my top genre to be involved in. I just like to mess around with it and I get some good sounds. I still question SOME OF (not all) of the reviewers on here as they may not know what they are talking about in certain genres. I would love to know what background that reviewer has. How many future bass releases he has had on a label and who he has worked with if he was co-producing. Ive been working with electronic music and hip hop for over 25 years so I guess you could say I am a vet also. So having someone tell me that my sounds are dated would make me laugh as I could slide that track over to a REAL future bass producer that has had hit records and he would tell me its perfect. So again, I think a lot of this is OPINION. And if you get the wrong opinion, you get returned. No hard feelings, but I will agree with the OP here that some of the critiques are not very good. Makes the reviewer sound like he doesnt know much at all.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Y180725FB FUTURE BASS INSTRUMENTAL – Returned

Post by markhimley » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:02 am

sermusicusa wrote:Many people do not realize that older sounding 80's synths are in future bass. They are in a lot of songs. Mostly SAWs and some other type of synths.
So saying that something is dated because one used a SAW in a track is really stupid.
I did not listen to this particular track. But I have been producing future bass for awhile, I will admit its not my top genre to be involved in. I just like to mess around with it and I get some good sounds. I still question SOME OF (not all) of the reviewers on here as they may not know what they are talking about in certain genres. I would love to know what background that reviewer has. How many future bass releases he has had on a label and who he has worked with if he was co-producing. Ive been working with electronic music and hip hop for over 25 years so I guess you could say I am a vet also. So having someone tell me that my sounds are dated would make me laugh as I could slide that track over to a REAL future bass producer that has had hit records and he would tell me its perfect. So again, I think a lot of this is OPINION. And if you get the wrong opinion, you get returned. No hard feelings, but I will agree with the OP here that some of the critiques are not very good. Makes the reviewer sound like he doesnt know much at all.

Just my 2 cents.
Hi sermusicusa,

Well I can't help but feel that this is quite obviously directed at me as I'm the only one who mentioned the 80's. You are absolutely right, many synths that were used in the 80's are still used today in Future Bass (and I never said it was because of the SAW, in fact if you look at the end of my review I actually said that was something this track could have used more of). There are many Future Bass tracks that use elements from the 80’s however they sound like modern productions with retro elements, as opposed to sounding like they are from the 80’s IMHO.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with you, I absolutely respect your opinion and am sorry that my review got under your skin and got you so irritated. However, I just want to point out that I did in fact list my background with Future Bass and pointed out that I don't claim to be an expert -- "That being said - very cool track!! I'm not an *expert* at Future Bass, however it has been my main focus for the last year, and I've had a good amount of success with it. I've signed close to 100 or so Future Bass tracks and have had a couple dozen placements with them. None of that to boast - simply to give my feedback some credibility - feel free to check out my music via the links in my signature if you'd like."

Also before telling me how stupid I am, and how much of an idiot you think I am, you pointed out that you didn't even listen to the track I was reviewing.. Also, these reviews are trying to help a track that was already returned - you eluded to the fact that these comments would cause the return. I also don't recall the OP saying the "critiques are not very good". In fact the OP seemed pretty happy with and grateful for the reviews.

Again I have NO intention of arguing with you. Your comment just feels rather heated and out of left field, it doesn't quite make sense. I'm sorry that I upset you, truly. I was only trying to provide some helpful feedback in a genre/style that I've had some moderate success in. You're absolutely right though, this was all my opinion, nothing I said was intended to be matter-of-fact, and I feel like I made that pretty clear. I'm still learning just like everyone else :)

Would you be willing to post links to some of your music? You seem to be quite experienced, I would love to check out your music! It sounds like there is a lot I could learn from your music considering your Future Bass is “perfect”.

Again sorry for upsetting you so much, not at all what I thought would come from giving this feedback.

All the best, and happy music making.

Mark

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