Building a studio computer

[zircon]

I was under the impression that even 4GB was something of a waste. Apps can only take advantage of 2GB on a 32 bit system which leaves extra for your OS, but I thought even the OS could only access up to 3gb total. Could be wrong... I've heard different things from different sources but the consensus seems to be that anything over 3 on a 32 bit system has no real impact.

[andreh]

[quote author=rnrmachine board=nick thread=1149663295 post=1170100351]Quote: I'll help when I can but I do take offense when someone talks to me like I do not know what I am talking about. How rude!!<snip>Jeez, and I was just trying to help. Hey rnrmachine, no hard feelings! We're all just trying to help each other out. Andre

[rnrmachine]

Quote:Telling somebody to install 32 Gigs of RAM in their current music computer now, when for like another year or so all that their OS and music software can address is a max of 4 is not very practical advice IMHO.That is NOT what I said, do some of you responders actually read or do you just skim???? Then reply in a way to make me look like a friggin moron. I told Nomi to put in 2, 1GB strips replacing the (most likely she has...) 512meg strips and that would solve her problem!!!!! Where in any part of any of my posts did I tell anyone to put 32GB in their comp??Quote:Hey rnrmachine, no hard feelings! We're all just trying to help each other out.I just felt belittled, me being a new member and seeing your senoir status made me feel bad. Plain and simple. But of course I will not hold any hard feelings.Quote:I was under the impression that even 4GB was something of a waste. Apps can only take advantage of 2GB on a 32 bit system which leaves extra for your OS, but I thought even the OS could only access up to 3gb total. Could be wrong... I've heard different things from different sources but the consensus seems to be that anything over 3 on a 32 bit system has no real impact.You are actually correct dude. Older versions of a number of windows OS software can't see 4GB. and NO 32bit system can see above it, it has to be 64bit. But Nomi's MB can do it (see all 4GB). I know she has XP presuming with service pack 2 so her system can do it for sure. IN a prior post Nomi listed what her comp consisted of, my advice was according to that. In my later post I was responding in a more generalized manner so my advice in a general way would be...I would make sure MB's always have the lastest Bios updates. If your board is older it might have an update to go above now. Meaning if you only have 2 RAM slots and your max WAS 2GB you could put 2, 2GB strips in now totaling 4GB IF a new Bios update AND your OS allows for it. I am NOT telling anyone to do this I am just saying that someone with an older comp still might be able to benefit from getting ALL updates. Learn all about the computer you own and make your judgement accordingly. Updating the Bios is very important and EASY if you do not make any stupid mistakes (like turning the power off while it is updating the Bios). If you screw up the Bios update your comp might never work again!!! (most MotherBoards come with a "clear cmos" button you just press or a set of "prongs" you need to short and that will reset your bios to the factory default at the time the MB was made/shipped.) IF somehow it got screwed up... Once I had a friend bring me his MB and I just shorted the CMOS prongs and BAM away he went... after he took me out for hotwings being so happy. heheA little thought here, really look into what you are going to buy, take advice from people, but use that advice to learn about what you are going to do and then choose. You might buy some software that turns out to show your systems limitations and end up stuck and broke. The nice thing about doing it all ourselves is that we get to choose. Obviously if you are low on the cash flow and have a few hard drives laying around... stream it... if you can... FREE is for ME!!!Just make sure you back up that stuff cause your hard drive isn't gonna live as long as it would when you load all ya can into RAM first. Not to mention RAM is WAY faster then a hard drive stream.. but all the while leaving room for it all to work well. Back it up anyway, loosing a years worth of work sucks. (I lost a bunch of songs I wasn't really done with but had the majority of recording and mixing done when my hard drive died. It was about 14 months worth of work.)Funny thing about me ending up here with my first few posts was. I was looking for info on recording and mixes myself.. so back off to my learning search. Have fun all, be safe and /HUGS

[matto]

Quote:Quote:Telling somebody to install 32 Gigs of RAM in their current music computer now, when for like another year or so all that their OS and music software can address is a max of 4 is not very practical advice IMHO.That is NOT what I said, do you jerk responders actually read or do you just skim???? I told Nomi to put in 2, 1GB strips replacing the (most likely she has...) 512meg strips and that would sovle her problem!!!!! Where in any part of any of my posts did I tell anyone to put 32GB in their comp??Sheesh would you relax... Yes I know you originally told Nomi to put 3GB instead of 2, which is perfectly reasonable advice. However it would not solve the very specific problem she's having with Protools and EW Colossus on her machine. That system works perfectly fine with 2 Gigs for many people I know. The problem is most likely that streaming isn't activated or working properly. If the system was working properly, 3Gigs would probably increase the performance somewhat which is nice. But it's not gonna solve the problem that's keeping her from making music.When I pointed that out, you said: Quote:Streaming was the poor mans RAM of yesterday. If you can afford to get it all into your RAM, DO IT!!!!!!IF you own a computer recording system with a 4 Raptor X SATA config and you only have 1or 2 gig of RAM then you WASTED a lot of money. Give that comp to your kid so he/she can get some awesome gaming going and rebuild LOL. There is a reason systems can now hold 32GB of memory!! Even more. Most decent RAM has a lifetime warranty. If not, you probably don't want it to begin with,.. even if it lasted a lifetime. Somebody who is not particularly tech savvy like nomi (no offense nomi , this applies to really the majority of people on this board) might think you're saying that you should load all your Colossus instruments into RAM, that a computer with two Gigs is only good for the kiddies, and that you should instead buy a new system that can hold up to 32Gigs of RAM.I just wanted to point out that for nomi's situation the 2Gigs are fine (I make my living composing/producing music and all I have is 2Gigs), and that getting a new machine and Vista and tons of RAM would not help her make music now since neither PT or Colossus are 64bit compatible and won't be for a while (as a matter of fact Colossus as we know it will never be ).Look, nomi is my friend and I'm simply trying to help her solve her particular problem without confusing her with a lot of non pertinent techno babble.I don't think that makes me a jerk... And to say "streaming was the poor man's RAM of yesterday" is quite simply ignoring the facts. Just about every computer based composer out there today uses streaming in some form or another, even people like Hans Zimmer who are quite far from poor...and while it's possible that it may become a thing of the past once 64bit systems are fully established in the music production community, I rather doubt it...The size of these sample instruments keeps going up and up, and even 32Gigs won't be enough to load even a rather modest session fully into RAM. Let alone a big orchestral template.Relax and grow a thicker skin man, calling people who disagree with you jerks has no place in a civilized discussion where the point is to help another member get on with making music...matto

[rnrmachine]

I accidentally hit post when I wanted to preview so you could go back and reread that... I took Jerk out right away cause I figured it would be wrong but you replied before I was done. It don't change the fact that I think you are acting like one, you just weren't suppose to see it!! ...and JEEZ would you get it right when you claim I say something.You said you know I told Nomi.. blah blah blah.. but you didn't say that in your reply to my post, YOU said...Quote:Telling somebody to install 32 Gigs of RAM in their current music computer now, when for like another year or so all that their OS and music software can address is a max of 4 is not very practical advice IMHOWhich I did NOT say. It is a total and utter twist in such a rediculous manner that it is preposterous. Let alone impossible. You can't put 32GB of memory into any current system unless you have that system.. I know this, but your statment makes it seem as if I don't. I said in response to someone.. Quote:Also...My figure of 32GB RAM has nothing to do with optimisim ROFL, here is why the fact I work with comps for more then just music comes in to the "real scoop" not fantasy land info.http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/intellist ... index.html take a look at the max RAM. That comp is for design. The price tag is high, but when you consider pro studios and what kind of money they put into them... It's cheap, give it a year or two and there will be consumer versions going to 32GB. Gamers will see to that!! (yea I do love gaming with comps as well)It seems pretty obvious to me what I meant. And this thread wouldn't be off on some wacked-out tanget if people just replied to what people actually say.Anyone reading my posts...DO NOT let these guys insinuate that I am saying what they say I am saying. Read my post properly, don't skim. It's pretty self explanatory what that was in reference too. Optimism had nothing to do with it. It is reality.And in response to growing thicker skin. I am sure I will eventually when I got people taking what I said and twisting it into moronic phrases so they can "look" smart by making me "look" dumb. Cutos to your brilliance. And here in civilized society we actually READI understand about the problem with streaming, I read it in an earlier post, but after my first post. And of course she needs to check out an update to configure her system to run properly and looks like it would be free (cheap). Sounds to me like they didn't have streaming enabled or wasn't able to at all... at the time of release on that version. And too many people bought it with lower RAM systems so they (the developers) got smart and put out an enabler. My reply to that is/was RAM is a better anyway. Since her system can do it UNLIKE others that have a lower system then she has. And they HAVE to stream it in order to get it to work. I (me personally)would still go the Ram route. She is prob just a few meg shy of solving those problems and since her system is duel channel the ONLY advice I can give is 2, 1GB strips. One strip of 1GB would throw the duel channel off and then her RAM speed would suffer. That is presuming She has 4, 512meg strips in her comp. Which would make sense. It could be 2, 1GB strips and she has 2 slots open but that isn't the cheaper way to get 2GB with 4 memory slots. I presumed the person who put it together for went the cheaper route.And NO LOL I am not saying a system with 1 or 2GB of RAM is only good for the kiddies. What I was saying is... if you wasted all that money on 4 Raptor hard drives but only bought 1GB or 2GB of RAM you wasted your money. The best current hard drives will NEVER be able to compete with current RAM. I would never give a system with 2GB and 4 raptors in it to any kid. It was a joke to convey something. Sorry you didn't catch it that way. CPU/RAM is the workhorse of your comp. Hard drive is for storage and people will do best to look at it that way. Raptors and streaming are for making up for the fact your system can only do soo much RAM and satisfy the gaming community with MORE to push the limits. They are the BEST hard drives out there and don't even come close to RAM. The topic is "building a studio computer" and I was just offering up some knowledge, saying go RAM and keep streaming to a minimum is sound advice. Whether you believe it or not.One time I said, "Man, I would love to see the Eagles and Steelers in the Super Bowl" a man not even in my conversation harped in and said,"That is imposible. It can't happen. Those two teams can never play eachother in a Superbowl." My response to him was.. "Well that shows me how much you know."This seems more like a twist what I say and bash me on any knowledge to the point where no one in their right mind would listen to what I have to say. Not because what I say is stupid. But because what people are saying I say. Please use quotes when you refer to something from my post then respond to that quote cause holy cow what I said got TWISTED!!!And to think, I was proud when I joined Taxi and joined this forum, I thought "man I am with some real musicians now"Seems more like just say the new guy said something stupid and reply on that..club..

[aubreyz]

Okay I got into this discussion late, but maybe I can offer some insight here. Streaming is not a cheap solution. In fact in many cases it is the only solution. I have over 750gigs of samples spread out among different hard drives. I know a little bit about RAM vs. streaming. Loading all of your samples into ram is just not practical in most cases. The piano samples I'm most fond of are several gigs on their own. Add about anything else and you've maxed out your ram. Streaming is the only way to get reasonable performance when a large number of samples are being used.While I always recommend as much Ram as is practical, there are some factors that are even more important to consider, especially with Pro Tools - drive speed and the internal bus traffic of your computer.It is very difficult to run Protools and a healthy sample selection on one box. That's why many pros have a dedicated recording system and a number of standalone systems for sample playback - like running Gigastudio or Logic. To get the maximum possible performance from an all in one box, drive distribution is critical. It is important to understand a few things:1. The system drive should not be for recording or sample playback.2. Recording drives should not be streaming samples.3. Even if you are using different drives for different things, if they are sharing the same bus, (ie. usb, ide, sata etc) there is still a high probability of bottlenecking issues.Some motherboards will have different buses sharing the same pipe - for instance, firewire and usb. I've even seen ide and sata sharing the same throughput. So here is what I would recomend:Use IDE for system drive.Use another bus, SATA or SCSI for recording drives (as many as is practical)Use another bus (firewire, usb) for sample playback (once again, as many drives as possible) - and separate the most frequently used and largest samples among as many drives as possible.Also be aware of anything else that might be sharing bus resources (midi interfaces, Ethernet controllers, AD converters, etc). Sometimes to ensure you have a dedicated pipe for the drives, an internal card is necessary - depending on the motherboard. On one of my G5's for instance, all the firewire ports sum at the motherboard. Though I had more ports available, or could have daisy chained, in order to increase headroom I dropped a firewire card in a slot and it increased performance.Another thing to consider is that using large amounts of RAM for samples tends to use up CPU power too. Within Protools I generally max out CPU before getting close on RAM or drive use. Just for reference, though I know Nomi is using a PC, running Protools HD, I have a dual 2.0 G5 with 8gigs of Ram, 2 sata drives (one system and one sample and video playback) and 4 fw800 audio record drives. Even with this horsepower, I use another system to stream most of my samples.It's unrealistic to expect to load an orchestra's worth of quality samples with one box. Memory doesn't hurt, but there's only so much one box can do.Aub

[Casey H]

All I have to say is at that thread:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... 1169212630 Casey

[rnrmachine]

Quote:There's another problem maybe this could solve? When I want to look for a sound, there's no convenient way. I have to fully load each sample and that takes awhile. If I get it streaming, will I be able to preview sounds more easily?Yes Nomi, I would bet money that getting streaming going on your software program you would notice a big reduction in load time. I did say sorry before because I presumed you were streaming already.

[rnrmachine]

Quote:All I have to say is at that thread:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?b ... 1169212630 CaseyROFL, the funny thing is I am not mad, I am laughing my butt off at the rediculousness of how twisted what someone says on this board can become when it is in TYPE what is said. This isn't whisper down the lane is it??... ROFLhttp://secure.hop.com/ now I am the jerk in fun hehe

[nomiyah]

Rnr- From my point of view, everyone is trying to be helpful and I appreciate it. Writing as the form of communication can be tricky. I wish I could understand a fraction of what you explained. But it sounds like some other people find it helpful. I learn as little technology as I can get away with and it has been very challenging for me to be a producer. But I'm up to the challenge! Thanks for your comments.Matt- I found the paper you mentioned with instructions. I'd read it when opening the software and ha ha ha I thought it didn't apply to me. It was about Kompact instruments and I didn't have anything with that name. I didn't realize it was part of the software. There are so many names it's confusing: East West Quantum Leap Colossus Kompact. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the heads up!!!Aub- You wrote:1. The system drive should not be for recording or sample playback.2. Recording drives should not be streaming samples.3. Even if you are using different drives for different things, if they are sharing the same bus, (ie. usb, ide, sata etc) there is still a high probability of bottlenecking issues.Do you think I have it set up right? Here's what I am doing now:Drive 1: Pro Tools and programsDrive 2: RecordingDrive 3: Sample libraryDrive 4: Archiving / SavingThanks as always for your informative posts. Hope I can get to one of your shows someday.Nomi