great Presidential speech

[drew]

Just a little more news for those of you that like to keep up:White House waits for the weekend to quietly acknowledge that Joe Wilson was right and Obama lied firstread.msnbc.msn.comDratAnd another:Dem leaders a month ago: Tea Party attendees are just a tiny fringe. Dem leaders today: OMG, there's going to be 2 million of them in the streets of DC today. theplumline.whorunsgov.comDem aide, "Doug Thornell, warned in the memo that the dust-up over Joe “you lie” Wilson has been invigorating conservatives"

[ernstinen]

I've been following this pretty closely, and I agree politics is a pretty dirty profession, overall. Joe Wilson's outburst was Anti-American, and even top Republicans like House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) said "I don't think anyone accepts the type of outburst and lack of decorum in the House chamber."What was President Obama's reaction? "I'm a big believer that we all make mistakes." Pretty conciliatory, I would say.Even the reaction in South Carolina to Wilson's tirade was "surprise and strong disaproval." I've seen people from SC on about every news station say that, with the exception of a few rural people in bars who said things like "I coudn't believe our Joe would do sumptin' that, but I kinda believe in Joe's views --- I think. I dunno. But he knows better'n me."But the guy who wins my "Dirtiest Of All" award is our old friend, Dick Armey. This guy can't give it up (he's been out of Washington for years), after he led the assault on Bill Clinton.How can people listen to people like Dick Armey, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Newt Gingrich (Mr. "Family Values") etc. SERIOUSLY? To me, they'll all comedians. I don't get it. If Dick Armey is the leader of the "tea party" coalition, these people have a fool for a leader. Talk about sheep. --- What's next, Dick Cheney re-surfacing years later when we STILL don't have health coverage for the poor and disadvantaged, while the rich and insurance companies are still throwing their crap against the wall to see if it sticks?Let the debate continue! Ern

[drew]

Sept 12, 2009, 8:27pm, ernstinen wrote:How can people listen to people like Dick Armey, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Newt Gingrich (Mr. "Family Values") etc. SERIOUSLY? To me, they'll all comedians. I don't get it. Let the debate continue! Ern Ern, thanks for the conversation I agree with a lot you say, but of the people you named (you missed Palin & Cheney), they are in the entertainment business now, not one of them can raise your taxes, cause RECORD deaths in Afghanistan (last 2 months running), take away your liberties, prosecute whistleblowers, appoint a communist radical 'truther' as a czar (Van Johnson), spend taxpayer money that your unborn grandkids haven't yet earned, travel the world apologizing for America, force us to 'sacrifice', give HUGE payoffs to unions and ACORN with OUR money, fire private sector employees, determine where doctors have to work and how much money they will make (under the house plan), or regulate our lives in general. I'm as puzzled as you when it comes to who the other side is listening to, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, John Murtha, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Biden , Rahmbo, ect., I could list their anti-American achievements if you'd like me to, but most of them made at least one comment about our military heroes being cold-blooded murderers, terrorizing women and children in the night. GOOD GRIEF! Outside of the ruling powers the list is just as ominous, with Chris (tingle in his pants) Matthews, James Carville, Howard Dean, Algore, Cindy Sheehan (bless her poor crazy heart), etc.As I have said several times, which only gets *crickets* as a response, the BIG O doesn't need the support of conservatives, he lost his moderate and independent support by his OWN ACCORD. He ran as a centrist bipartisan moderate, earning the faith of people who would never vote for a tax-and-spend liberal, they feel betrayed by what he has done, not by what the above conservative list of folks has done. Fox, et al have never influenced an election any more than all the liberal media has and as pointed out their viewer numbers don't get close to the lapdog numbers. Americans are truly and rightly fearing the looming taxes his reforms are going to bringBlaming conservatives for the O's failures right now is a waste of breath, HE DOESN'T NEED THEM, he pointed this out himself many times. Hell, the one, un-civil, idiot member, Wilson, should have helped his cause.My free advice to BHO, get your support back without attacking Rush, Beck, etc., go straight to the people with answers, not repetitive speeches. We've heard it all before. You are not campaigning anymore. However, a tax-and-spend economy will be a tough sell in America.

[billg]

I've actually checked out the Obama tax plan and i actually get a little bit of a tax break. There was a site where you could punch in your numbers and find out how you would make out but I don't remember where that was. It's been shown over and over that Obama's plan doesn't raise taxes on the middle class but there are still folks hawking that same old stuff that was circulating during the campaignhttp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_wh ... 2008.htmlI personally think that we should roll back the Bush tax cuts so we can make some headway on paying for his war. I also think we should pull out of Afghanistan. Somehow the trick is to try and pay old debt first while not getting strapped and moving the country backwards. Not an easy task with tax cuts and wars to finance.

[toddt]

Not an American myself, but the free use of the term "anti-American" cheapens you. I mean, McCarthy's twisted campain only used the term "un-American"!Wilson was rude and crass, but anti-American? No. Drew, as for you using the same label for the actions of these strong, hardworking and patriotic men and women of your government simply because you disagree with them - that kinda stinks.I think Bush Jr was a deeply misguided and very poor president whose policies and actions were a catastrophic negative for your country and the whole world... But I have no doubt that he had the best interests of his idea of America in his heart (and obviously a significant number of Americans agreed - and still agree - with him too).So go easy on the slurs everyone.

[jonathanm]

Sept 13, 2009, 12:48pm, toddt wrote:So go easy on the slurs everyone. But they're so easy to use and very addicting, tt.

[drew]

Sept 13, 2009, 12:48pm, toddt wrote:Not an American myself, but the free use of the term "anti-American" cheapens you. I mean, McCarthy's twisted campain only used the term "un-American"!Wilson was rude and crass, but anti-American? No. Drew, as for you using the same label for the actions of these strong, hardworking and patriotic men and women of your government simply because you disagree with them - that kinda stinks.I think Bush Jr was a deeply misguided and very poor president whose policies and actions were a catastrophic negative for your country and the whole world... But I have no doubt that he had the best interests of his idea of America in his heart (and obviously a significant number of Americans agreed - and still agree - with him too).So go easy on the slurs everyone. Excellent post. I agree with much of this, but you must realize Ern and I were talking a little looser than usual, we pick on each other a lot. Most any name we call a politician (ie loser, thief, traitor, nazi, etc) can be interpreted to; I disagree with his political stance. But also, I'm from the south where proper words aren't considered important, semantics aren't necessary as long as you know what we're talking about In the south, we, like you, have an accent, it just isn't as cool as yours.One of my favorite quotes was an old English actor being interviewed here, he said "I don't have an accent, I merely speak proper English"If you rewrite the above Bush paragraph and only change the name to Obama I'll agree with you 100%.

[toddt]

Sept 13, 2009, 2:19pm, drew wrote:Excellent post. I agree with much of this, but you must realize Ern and I were talking a little looser than usual, we pick on each other a lot. Most any name we call a politician (ie loser, thief, traitor, nazi, etc) can be interpreted to; I disagree with his political stance. But also, I'm from the south where proper words aren't considered important, semantics aren't necessary as long as you know what we're talking about Hi Drew, I'm sorry to overreact but while what you do amongst yourselves is cool - for sure me and my friends call each other some very unpalatable and unprintable things ourselves - what you do so publicly should in a perfect world be a little more controlled because people like me take things as they read them.I do not consider myself a prude (who does?) but in my opinion some words and phrases should really be reserved for people or situations deserving of them. Things like Nazi, traitor, (anti-American?) etc - by using them freely, in my opinion, you do a disservice to those who fought against them and those who suffered at the hands of them... and you diminish their meaning. i.e. if you label Pelosi a traitor or Nazi, what word do you then leave in reserve for someone who TRULY wants to destroy your country, or TRULY hates Jews and other minorities and seeks their destruction, with malice aforethought? Are they then "no seriously, they're a REAL Nazi" or "I can't believe it's not Nazi"?My wife is a lawyer and I think the one thing it has taught me is that words do carry a real power, even if they are very easy to say and don't feel that powerful at the time...p.s. my accent is some weird hybrid of Aussie and Brit, so it may be many things but, as my wife will tell you, "cool" it is not

[drew]

Point taken, I'll try to be more careful... and blame it on Ern I've learned not to believe things my wife says, even though she's always right

[ernstinen]

Well, the reason I used the term "Anti-American" is because in the U.S. Congress, people NEVER shout down the U.S. President whether it's Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, George W. Bush, ANY President. Maybe I should have said "Un-American." It's always been that way, unlike the British Parliament where they're always yelling at each other. We don't do it that way in this country. It's called protocol, and it just wasn't right.But, other than in Congress during a Presidential speech, there IS (or should be) complete freedom of speech.Here are some examples from Saturday's march on Washington:"IS THIS RUSSIA?""TRAITORS, TERRORISTS RUN OUR GOVERNMENT!""DON'T BLAME ME. I VOTED FOR 'THE AMERICAN' [McCain]" --- (Alluding to rumors that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.).""JOE WILSON FOR PRESIDENT!"And here's my "favorite":"BURY OBAMACARE WITH KENNEDY!"Freedom Of Speech!Ern