great Presidential speech

[ernstinen]

Sept 14, 2009, 6:47am, heinsite wrote:i started this thread with the hopes that it would flush out good points and great entertainment--haven't been disappointed in the least.as i've said, let's wait to see the bill, and if it's BETTER than what we have now. i do carry hope that it will be better. it's in OUR hands and the people we've elected, regardless if some are idiots, crooks, fair and caring, or not. that's how we still work.cheers,whYup, this is a great thread, Warren! Thanks for starting it. So many different points of view --- it's been enlightening!I found this article in today's L.A. Times (I know, I know, that liberal rag ):Some Republican party insiders now fear that the extreme rhetoric and conspiracy theories coming from the angry reaches of the conservative base are undermining the GOP's broader credibility and casting it as the party of the paranoid.Such insiders point to theories running rampant on the Internet, such as the idea that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is thus ineligible to be president, or that he is a communist, or that his allies want to set up Nazi-like detention camps for political opponents.They are "wild accusations and the paranoid delusions coming from the fever swamps," said David Frum, a conservative author and speechwriter for President George W. Bush who is among the more vocal critics of the party base and of the conservative talk show hosts helping to fan the unrest."Like all conservatives, I am concerned about this administration's accumulation of economic power," Frum said. "Still, you have to be aware that there's a line where legitimate concerns begin to collapse into paranoid fantasy."I'll bet they won't have HIM on the Fox News Channel! Ern

[mojobone]

Certainly it's possible to achieve our objectives in Afghanistan, but it won't be done with air power; it's simply not possible to bomb them back to the stone age, cuz most of their country is already there. One reason the Soviets had such difficulty there was because we armed the mujahedeen. After the Reds left, the American aid and arms tap was allowed to run dry-turned out to be a big mistake, as certain financial interests have used the faith of the Afghani people to turn them to a political purpose; mainly, insuring that those financial interests make a great deal of money.The Taliban is the only source of protection and cash in much of Afghanistan, which is controlled mostly by local warlords and thugs wherever it's not controlled by the Taliban. Both the thugs and the Taliban get much of their operating budget from the poppy fields-interestingly, for the amount of money we're spending there, we could probably have bought all the opium produced in the region, giving us leverage over the poppy producers that we'd likely get by no other method. Certainly, we've got our work cut out, cuz the terrorist guerrillas are using every dirty trick we taught'em.

[ernstinen]

Sept 14, 2009, 9:51am, mojobone wrote:Certainly it's possible to achieve our objectives in Afghanistan, but it won't be done with air power; it's simply not possible to bomb them back to the stone age, cuz most of their country is already there. One reason the Soviets had such difficulty there was because we armed the mujahedeen. After the Reds left, the American aid and arms tap was allowed to run dry-turned out to be a big mistake, as certain financial interests have used the faith of the Afghani people to turn them to a political purpose; mainly, insuring that those financial interests make a great deal of money.The Taliban is the only source of protection and cash in much of Afghanistan, which is controlled mostly by local warlords and thugs wherever it's not controlled by the Taliban. Both the thugs and the Taliban get much of their operating budget from the poppy fields-interestingly, for the amount of money we're spending there, we could probably have bought all the opium produced in the region, giving us leverage over the poppy producers that we'd likely get by no other method. Certainly, we've got our work cut out, cuz the terrorist guerrillas are using every dirty trick we taught'em.Good points, Mojo (as usual!). All I was sayin' is that drones have been the only (semi) effective method to get at the leaders so far. But then they get a new leader, and a new leader etc. It really is a pointless exercise. --- I saw a map on the news yesterday, and the Taliban control something like 85% of the country now. And, yes, the opium poppies finance a lot of it.What're ya gonna do, spray paraquat on a country the size of France, like the U.S Government did in the late 70's (I believe) on Mexican marijuana, (I don't know my herbicide history that well ).But other than training terrorists (which shouldn't be taken lightly), what REAL threat from the Taliban to the Western world is there, actually? Are they going to shoot a nuclear missile that hits Los Angeles? No. BUT, I'd watch out for yaks raining from the sky in your neighborhood.I think the best idea is for G.W. Bush and John McCain to team up and get Bin Laden, dead or alive, while chasing him to the end of the earth and the gates of Hell. (I had to toss that in! ).Seriously, I think we should get out of there and spend the money on (legal) intelligence and train thousands of dark-haired Americans to speak Arabic and Farsi, then let them loose to do their dirty deeds. OR, clone the flying monkeys from "The Wizard of Oz" and have THEM destroy the poppy fields. Yea, that's the ticket! Sorry for rambling --- I'm NOT stoned; I just didn't sleep a wink last night and am feeling pretty spaced-out! Ern

[t4mh]

Ya know, the evening news is the source of TERRIFIC entertainment! I just glad Ticketmaster hasn't gotten into the mix.Keith

[ernstinen]

Sept 14, 2009, 4:32pm, t4mh wrote:Ya know, the evening news is the source of TERRIFIC entertainment! I just glad Ticketmaster hasn't gotten into the mix.KeithROFLMAO! Keith, was my bizarre diatribe like the "evening news?" I guess it took bits and pieces of it, mixed in a little Jimi Hendrix and beatnik poetry.But that's vanity on my part. I'm sure I could work for Faux, er Fox News and that's about it! Ern

[drew]

Here's a new article you may enjoy, well... not ObamaAfghans are taking to democracy like a duck takes to a swimming pool filled with Jello and gravel http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... tnum=0What we need is a new czar, here's a few I'd recommend:I'm better at picking out czars than the O is

[heinsite]

thanks mojo, that is hilariously funny, if it wasn't true (IMHO). i predict we will be outta there in about a year...can you say pakistan? obvious reasons...and this has been a fun thread, with the far right now controlling the supposed "regular" right, "socialists and communists and facists" are truly looking more like THEM right wingers than the wacko left wingers....drew, you draw funny conclusions--obama not only started the afgan war, he started this financial mess we're in, and he started the healthcare crisis--whoops, only if you NEED it--, and he started the irag war, and he started gitmo, and he started the bail out--ah, never mind, this stuff's too easy...but he now is truly responsible for helping get us OUT of this crap--thanks heavens he has a brain! but....i guess we should start voting more for the REAL genius'sss, the racists, hitler drawing, socialist/communist calling just plain stupid people who trust WHO?? rush the drug addict limburger? faux (thanks mojo) news? all them white haired jackasses texting while the president was speaking the other night? sure, let's trust the guys that don't, won't and probably CAN'T stand up and applaud a good idea or point. yep, let's trust them. have fun--just check your wallet--or your favorite hooker for those that may have one....LOL...the right wing even has the libs on THAT ONE...as i said, this has been fun, but what will likely happen because of all the hate, most of it coming from the right and far right, is someone will get hurt or worse. unfortunately, a couple of you genius's won't give a damn...."yep, we have a right to bare arms..." yeah, we all need an AK47--yep drew, you drew me out...i'd like to say you did a respectable job, but sorry, nope. you "draw" all the wrong pictures. whoops, wrong tense.

[drew]

I must be a little slow tonight, I don't get it.

[suzdoyle]

Well, geez, I think spirited debate is a cornerstone of our democracy . . . although I find slurs and name calling rather an ineffective way to works towards resolution on divergent issues.What if we were to remember the evolutionary function of having parties with polar opposite views? In Prometheus Rising, Robert Anton Wilson presented the idea that political liberals move new ideas forward (sort of like the accelerator on a car), and conservatives tend to slow down the momentum of new ideas (applying the brakes so the car doesn't go wildly careening off the cliff), which makes things move forwarded in a more grounded manner.In other words -- having polar opposite parties keep things moving forward in a more tempered fashion than they might otherwise be. If we had solely unchecked progressive change or solely unbalanced conservative stasis, things might be even wonkier than they feel right now. Never a dull moment in a civilization, eh?Here's a video I thought had a good spin on the idea of what democracy is:(this animator is from Poland; I underscored music to a different video he animated, which is where I discovered his other nifty work) ,Suz

[fusilierb]

Sept 14, 2009, 10:04pm, suzdoyle wrote: In Prometheus Rising, Robert Anton Wilson presented the idea that political liberals move new ideas forward (sort of like the accelerator on a car), and conservatives tend to slow down the momentum of new ideas (applying the brakes so the car doesn't go wildly careening off the cliff), which makes things move forwarded in a more grounded manner.I never, in a million years, expected to see Robert Anton Wilson quoted on these boards. You just blew my mind Suz! Awesome!B