"Mixing To Standard"-New Mix Up

[sgs4u]

You're kind of new here. Perhaps the standards are even higher than you are aware of. Whether you agree with the screeners or not, doesn't matter that much. Telling us on this forum what the screeners should be using as criteria, is jes gonna end up cost you extra money in submission fees, and frustration. And it will also make your opinions less credible.Everyone has much better odds of forwards and placements when they learn how to mix what they record. And spell check.steve May 21, 2008, 1:11pm, jeffabbey wrote:Mixing is an art within itself and should not be part of the Musicians critique.The critiquers of TAXI should be judging the song and musicianship only and should know that on all proffesional recordings that it is not the musician who does the mixing, but that this is hired out to a profesional in this feild.Jeff

[hummingbird]

May 21, 2008, 1:11pm, jeffabbey wrote:Mixing is an art within itself and should not be part of the Musician's critique.The critiquers of TAXI should be judging the song and musicianship only and should know that on all professional recordings that it is not the musician who does the mixing, but that this is hired out to a profesional in this field.JeffHi Jeff - you would be right if this was a song pitch. However, this was a pitch for film & tv - meaning they are going to use the track as is, and therefore it must be well-mixed and reach the standard of "broadcast quality".ergo... "...wants to find great material for the upcoming TV season, as he has numerous contacts in that world as well. Male or female vocals are OK. He's asked us to be extra selective in what we forward - he wants quality over quantity - so your vocal and instrumental performances must be excellent. And your tracks/songs also need to be of the highest quality"Secondly I disagree with this statement: "on all professional recordings it is not the musician who does the mixing, this is hired out to a professional in this field." - that may be true for some of the songwriters here, but many of us do (or aspire to) mix our own work, with the aim of pitching it to film & tv as well as other opportunities.Therefore it is *crucial* that the mixing or production of a piece submitted to a film/tv listing be screened as well as the composition of the piece itself. In fact, this has been the hugest learning curve for me and the feedback from Taxi screeners and my peers on this forum have played a major role in my growth as a producer.One of the things we discuss a lot here is how to target our submissions effectively, and that means, paying close to attention to the wording of the listing, listening to the 'a la's' provided and trying to honestly assess whether we will be "on target for the listing" in every way.I'm sure you didn't read the text of the listing before making your post, so it's understandable that you might have misunderstood what we were discussing & why production would matter in this instance.warmlyHummin'bird

[jeffabbey]

May 21, 2008, 1:20pm, sgs4u wrote:Telling us on this forum what the screeners should be using as criteria, is jes gonna end up cost you extra money in submission fees, and frustration. And it will also make your opinions less credible.Everyone has much better odds of forwards and placements when they learn how to mix what they record. And spell check.steveSorry Steve but I have to disagree with you.Frustation is not something that will happen to me. I am 55 years old and have been around the music industry for a very long time and am well past that point in life of being frustrated about such things.New here or not should not be a citeria for anyone's opinion.When someone who has never even play an instrument offers up a suggestion about my guitar playing or my songs, I listen without an additude of thinking or saying, "You just don't know what you're talking about."Please understand, I have no fear of loosing credibility with you. If I have an opinion, I will express it, and you can take that to the bank. And as far as spell check, you're going to just have to learn except those of us with dislexia and juust want to givve an opinion.Jeff

[sgs4u]

No apology deeded whatsoever. I'm totally fine with you disagreeing. I think you just earned yourself official Dot status. Except, Vikka made the point, that actually matters. For this listing, the client wants to be able to use the track, as is. Without re-recording it. This part of the listing description,Quote:He's asked us to be extra selective in what we forward - he wants quality over quantity - so your vocal and instrumental performances must be excellent. And your tracks/songs also need to be of the highest qualitymakes your point Quote:(The critiquers of TAXI should be judging the song and musicianship only and should know that on all proffesional recordings that it is not the musician who does the mixing, but that this is hired out to a profesional in this feild.) moot I repeat for emphasis Quote:tracks/songs also need to be of the highest qualityeht trooth is rIIeeete thre ina lsistink C?Submitting a track to this listing that has everything but the mix, up to the highest quality, would be worth learning from. I just wouldn't be surprised if it didn't forwarded because of anything sub-standard, in the mix. and I wouldn't be surprised even if the MIX was perfect, either. It all depends on what the screener knows about the listing/party's, intentions, and what they deem to be the "highest quality". And I know they won't be fuzzy about deciding what is highest quality to them. If it's close to what they're looking for, it'll get forwarded. But NOT if the mix is sub-standard, which could mean a lot of different mix/arrangement issues. Personally, I've learned to be Ok with this. And the bonus is, it's pushed the mixes of my tunes, to be better.

[Mark Kaufman]

Hi Jeff,Perhaps you're right, and mixing certainly is an art. TAXI has encouraged many of us to learn more than we ever thought possible, and to actually wear ALL the hats. But even if one was only a musician, the fact remains that a critique of any submission can only come back to the submitter. So whatever needs to be addressed is said right there to that person...it's up to the musician to correct it, even if that means bringing it to a professional engineer. Can't expect TAXI to ring up a third party for the critiques.Listen to some of this stuff...man, most of these musicians can produce like pros. Cheers,-Mark

[jeffabbey]

Hello Humming’Bird,You are correct in your entire statement to me in that I did not read the entire post to understand just what you were talking about. Thus my error in making the post. But I’m sure that it will not be my last. And so I thank you for your gracious response.And to Steve, I offer my sincerest apology for my previous statement.So from now on I will read entire post prior to posting.However, while writing this post on my second monitor, in Microsoft word to correct my spelling, I see that Steve now will not accept my apology and that he has awarded me a Dot status. Very well… but you have still neither frustrated me nor have discouraged me. I’m here simply having a good time and will continue to do so regardless of my Dot status.I would like to thank the both of you for bringing this to my attention,Jeff

[sgs4u]

Being a DOT is a good thing. You were willing to argue your point with me, that's also a good thing. Relax. I like you. May 21, 2008, 3:35pm, jeffabbey wrote:Hello Humming’Bird,You are correct in your entire statement to me in that I did not read the entire post to understand just what you were talking about. Thus my error in making the post. But I’m sure that it will not be my last. And so I thank you for your gracious response.And to Steve, I offer my sincerest apology for my previous statement.So from now on I will read entire post prior to posting.However, while writing this post on my second monitor, in Microsoft word to correct my spelling, I see that Steve now will not accept my apology and that he has awarded me a Dot status. Very well… but you have still neither frustrated me nor have discouraged me. I’m here simply having a good time and will continue to do so regardless of my Dot status.I would like to thank the both of you for bringing this to my attention,Jeff

[anne]

Hi Jeff - nice to meet you. I'm glad to see someone else debate a point besides ol' Steve there Do you mix your own material or do you send it out? I'm just wondering. I mix mine, and record / mix other people's material. I'm finding it harder and harder to mix my own material though! I was wondering if that is because I'm investing more time in my songwriting , and its just a natural part of learning to say "its done" at the right time. Welcome to the boards - Hazineju, I could only listen on my laptop speakers, so I won't comment on the mixing but it did seem a bit low on the levels. HTH

[jeffabbey]

May 21, 2008, 3:23pm, lyle wrote:Hi Jeff,Perhaps you're right, and mixing certainly is an art. TAXI has encouraged many of us to learn more than we ever thought possible, and to actually wear ALL the hats. But even if one was only a musician, the fact remains that a critique of any submission can only come back to the submitter.Cheers,-MarkThank you Mark. I was unaware of TAXI’s encouragement of all hats.But let me give you an example of mixing. A friend of mine “Frank Briggs” just released his first album that took him two years to write. After he would finish a particular cut he would send it to me for critique. I would from time to time give suggestions but I was always blown away with his ability to mix. However, prior to his releasing the album he hired a professional mixer to do the final cuts. I was totally amazed by Rich Breen, the mixer, and how he was able to bring the mix a giant leap forward which previously I thought wasn’t possible from hearing Frank’s original mixes. And so I’m perplexed as to how anyone who has dedicated his or her time to their writing skills and musicianship could now step back and bring the art of mixing to meet with the art of there musical abilities. Thus bringing me back to my original question. And I’m now rewording… How can the person critiquing a song expect a musician to bring it to the level of where it should be as for a final mix as Rich Breen did with my friend Frank Briggs.Allow me another example, and no I’m not trying to push my song on anyone in this forum simply because it doesn’t belong here… If you have time go to http://abbeydigitalarts.com/CD/HandsOffMyLady.html and listen to the low quality of my mixing abilities. And keep in mind that Frank Briggs has offered to do the drumming so ignore the poor quality of the drum machine.Jeff

[jeffabbey]

May 21, 2008, 3:53pm, sgs4u wrote: Being a DOT is a good thing. You were willing to argue your point with me, that's also a good thing. Relax. I like you. Wow, yet another thing that I didn’t know about TAXI… “DOT is good”. But don’t worry about me being un-relaxed, (if there is such a word). I’m always relaxed.So I guess we can both look forward to future arguments.Thanks for dat DOT reward you gave me,Jeff