Theory on melody and lyrics

[christig]

Hey Flood. I have to agree with Mewnan on the parody thing. Also, many hymn tunes have also found their way to the taverns with, well . . . not so religious lyrics.My grandfather used to sing me songs and we'd make up our own lyrics. He said that was what they used to do for entertainment. But I think I know what you're getting at in a sense too. Maybe a great melody deserves a great lyric? and shouldn't be sold short until the right combo of words and music has been reached?!

[mojobone]

Diggin' whut christi g said. I do roots music, and many folk tunes get regular lyric updates; google "Frankie And Johnnie". her second sentence is also very perceptive, IMO.

[horacejesse]

Flood, I like theories. I also like the way you look at lyrics for nine months. As long as it takes.I want to lean your theory down for my own practical purposes. Once you have a few lines, say one verse though the amount is arbitrary, so that the subject is chosen and the voyage is underway, then I believe there is an ideal way to proceed, and that is always what I am after.Because when I don't get the song out in one or two pushes, it can develop into a complicated birth that might last months or even years. Once I become super conscious of the unfinished song, then I think I am firmly on that familiar quest and nothing but the ideal lines are going to work for me anymore. At that point I am very hard to get by as my own gatekeeper.The good news is as you say. Given enough time and effort the ideal lines will come. For me I have to actively put in the effort, waiting does not do the trick. I have to keep many songs in various stages of production at any one time to ensure that I finish a few now and then.

[gongchime]

It's possible to make the melody follow the ups and downs of normal human speech and it's also possible to stay on a single note for most of a lyric, or rocking back and fourth between two notes primarily. Sting continually uses these approaches over and over again. One contrasts with the others but all are viable.

[milfus]

I dunno, I have found, (and trust me, boy have i studied, like 5 college courses, over 10k pages) that the ONLY melody rule that holds true 100% of the time, is that your ears are the absolute authority, over any method/rule/pattern if it sounds good, it just sounds good, I noticed once I realized that, and just walked away for like 30-40 minutes, and came back and listened to it like i didn't write it, I would get catty and think of how i could do it better, after about 5-10 rounds of this self flagilation, I would have a melody I just had to accept as good.it actually improved my writing both lyrically and melodical many many fold, you should learn all the techniques and devices to give you options, but only your ear should dictate the end result

[milfus]

ack, just reviewed vicki's post and i pretty much paraphrased her, sorry vickishes a genius, listen to her

[Mark Kaufman]

Here's more food for thought: the first version you hear of a new song will forever bias your ear to the following versions.So many times when I post a new one on a songwriting forum, I'll get feedback, I'll think it all over and make changes. When I exercise the courage to take out a good line for the benefit of the whole song, I usually hear some people say I shouldn't have done it, while others will agree with it.There is usually no "correct" answer to these choices, but had I posted the versions in reverse order, I think I might get a similar response. Once we like something, it's hard to let it go.Don't be afraid to kill your darlings.

[sgs4u]

Sept 22, 2008, 8:33am, lyle wrote:Here's more food for thought: the first version you hear of a new song will forever bias your ear to the following versions..... Once we like something, it's hard to let it go.This is so prevalent it's amazing more people don't realize it. I have a theory on it. You can't possibly compare the new version of something with the previous version of something, until you've listened to the new version at least a multiple of 5 times more than the first. The first version has all the emotional excitement of a new thing, it has all the energy of the initial creativity attached to it. It's almost impossible for someone to be objective unless they are hell bent on being completely objective. Until you learn not to judge the new stuff with predictable expectations, and replace them with wide-eyed openness to change. Ever watch a producer and an engineer sitting around listening to a new take lokking at each other. They're saying, "I dunno, what do you think," back and forth. Most people have to work very hard at being objective with new ideas being integrated into their song. I find lyric writers to be the toughest in general, but that's a generality that could get in the way of objectivity as well. You just have to plan to not be surprised when you're not impressed with a new version of a song or an added overdub, and allow the new version to grab a hold on your subconscious in a different place, so it can have equal footing with your previous emotional attachment to a mix or version. I love stuff like this tho. The emotional reactions to music, are totally part of the big picture and why I've always loved music. The reactions every person feels are like snowflakes, and none of them are exactly the same. They also melt and diffuse when they are exposed to a new environment. And they nourish the earth. I know I'm weird with this stuff, but does anyone relate to what I'm talking about?

[Mark Kaufman]

I hear you, Steve. I agree completely, even when you started getting all sweet and poetic-like. My sentiments exactly.I'm struggling with my own bias on my own stuff...spent three hours last night remixing "Better Believe"...took out a lot of extraneous sounds that a lot of people mentioned was overkill. After a long resistant while, I finally admitted to myself that I agreed with them. So I performed the surgery, spent a lot of time on it...and came to a good new version. But then I played the first one again, and felt an overwhelming loyalty to it. It has lots of recording errors and sounds that are inferior to the newer one...but I STILL feel torn.I think this is why so many of the great recording artists prefer to work quickly, just lay it down as fresh as can be and move on, no second guessing and no regrets.But, then again, they're great.

[boobielive]

floodi was out last week at a local boca cluband i happened to walk into ladies happy hour.didn't think much about it until i reflected on thewhat was going oni was so taken by the ladies at the bar i wrote one of my best songs about my a three hr experience.melody, is the theme, the story carries it forward to the end it is not planned, it happensgood songs are of life's experiences not to be held back by rules for commercial crapya all get to involved in what is not reallife is where it is At in every melody and story that moves in real life